You attack fae - FAE - to stop Glomdoring. You basically undid the RP of Serenwilde protecting the fae. If you can do this, you can work your way around the illithoid-are-bad RP.

I'm glad this is all contained in its own thread now. Kudos to the moderators.

I'm still completely dumbfounded how trying to influence Ixthiaxa is somehow against this mighty RP of Serenwilde. The killing of Fae is perfectly legitimate in Seren eyes when it serves the greater good of the Fae (and of course, of Serenwilde), and the Fae are infinitely more important than the Ilithoid are unimportant. Plus, convincing an entire of village of nasty, disgusting Soulless shards that the Serenwilde is RIGHT, which certainly serves the greater good and makes a huge political statement, well, what's not to love about that?

If not interacting with Illithoid is your thing, go for it. But don't confuse personal RP with org RP.

The folly of the Serens in this thread is trying to argue from a completely lopsided and unsupportable position.

Seren's RP is often hamstrung by the things mentioned in this thread, and when circumvented, can and has been enforced by divine mandate. Even when it isn't, you have to do backflips to justify anything you do while anyone arguing against you just has to point and say "you're not true to your RP".

Of course, when other orgs RP amounts to "do whatever wins, catre blanche", you cannot return the favour. A position of restriction of action versus one that is by its nature retrained by nothing, or very nearly so.

Were I in such a position, I would simply state the obvious, and not argue it. When the party calling you out is equivalent to a butcher calling a vegetarian untrue to their ideal for eating a square of jello, were I the vegetarian, I would not feel inclinded to have to justify my position IC or OOCly.

That said, I'll add it to one of the reasons I'm glad to have left Serenwilde. Its fun starting to build RP in Gaudi that isn't "party/excess" centric, and from the results those of us now trying are seeing, I'm not the only one.

This is perhaps relevant to future revolts, but this particular one would have been impossible anyways, due to the mobs they were helping basically asking Seren to go and get themselves enemied to the opposing village by slaughtering it.

Anyone remember who first activated TBC, and how that panned out? Or how Bandrui was first received, even without taint/soullessness or anything of that nature being entwined with her?

No surprise with this one.

I don't see any shame in an org (or person) adapting their RP in such a way that they can accomplish a desired objective, or obtain a useful game mechanic benefit... within reason, that is. I don't think it's reasonable to chastise an org (or person) for such behavior, either; on the other side of the coin, I don't think it's reasonable to use RP as a justification for getting away with murder (so to speak), or as an excuse for unusually boorish behavior.

Ideally, the game mechanics would adapt to players' RP, but on the whole, they don't; and game mechanics are at least as important in Lusternia as RP, not least because we all compete with each other for land and resources, such as villages. Watching our characters advance and amass wealth, and helping our orgs and patrons to become stronger are important aspects of the game, too (and more important than RP for many goal-oriented players).

Let's face it: It takes hundreds of hours of hard work to achieve accomplishments in a game like this, and yes, that will absolutely take precedence over a minor footnote in someone's RP background (the Fae are a narrative backdrop... actual RP that's meaningful takes place between living players).

I also wholeheartedly agree with Rainydays. It seems to me that "bad guy" orgs can get away with quite a lot, whereas "good guy" orgs are subject not only to tougher RP restrictions, but also moral restrictions as well.

That's why I'm personally a fan of moral gray areas in games. There's no denying that Glomdoring and Magnagora are fashioned to be the "evil" orgs, and treated that way by much of the game lore and other players. I much prefer player orgs that are evil, but happen to be that way because that's how their characters act, on purpose... not because they joined the Dark Side.

That last paragraph is rambling, ah well.

EDIT: Heh, one more thing: I'm not saying "pre-made" good and evil teams are all bad, but they can and do cause problems.

@Alacardael:That was a one time occurrence because I was in a bad mood on an OCC level and I regret doing it because it was bad RPing.

@Everinne: It's not just personal RP. From the Sacred Leaves:

To me at least, that's a pretty strong message from the org as a whole saying 'we don't like illithoids'. If it was possible to control a village by beating them into submission that might fit a bit better.

I know there's the conquest governing style, but that seems bit broken and odd to me by the, I kill you so that you respect me more, but have an enemy status and can't influence some of you. And then in the end we'd still actually be winning the village by doing this:

Angkrag is only available to Magnagora and Glomdoring, and Delport (I thought?) leans heavily to Celest... it shouldn't be too hard to balance this out.

I would not want to see the anti-illithoid populaces being required to influence the illithoid village in order to compete, it would be bad roleplay.

Each org has the foundation of operating for the greater good since open beta (Farella withdrawing leaving Glomdoring to be overcome by the taint, Princess Marylinth destroying Old Celest) and said theme is continue as each new org comes out (Nothing matters but Glomdoring, Hallifax and the whole Collective thing) whereby the means of which one attains certain goals will always be debated. I think that is the point. It is not a suspension of rp in any sense as each org's history is littered with examples of moral ambiguity, but while some choices are black and white, we are supposed to encounter other that make us pause and think.

You can go back from the early days of Serenwilde when they first allied with Magnagora (under Nikua I believe) and read posts about how some people thought it was a horrible decision and others thought it was the right thing to do, to keep Serenwilde in a position to grow stronger. I think it is a good thing. In Lusternia, Serenwilde, Magnagora, Celest, Glomdoring, Hallifax, and Gaudiguch are all 'good' and the only thing that is 'evil' is the Soulless .

I had a point somewhere.. hope I made it...

No. Delport and Estelbar are good for orgs with fewer fighters because they're always peaced, but neither village has any particular relation to any org, and everyone has an equal chance to get them (ignoring things like walking distance and such)

Delport is always peaced, but has no leanings towards anyone or anything otherwise.

Angkrag's problem is with undead denizens, but they may or may not be partially fixed now that the orcs in there can be influenced. Not sure if they are undead or not, but people who can influence undead still have a major, obvious advantage either way.

An easy fix would be, the kephera won't follow illithoid-friendly villages, and the illithoid village won't follow kephera-friendly organizations.

While this may seem bland, I think it is much better than the two alternatives I can think of-- compromising the currently existing RP around illithoids or punishing people for following it.

And this conversation is about a village made up of Soulless shards, whom on the whole(correct me if I'm wrong about this) I believe want to someday free Illith. So while not technically Soulless Gods anymore, I think the issue some people can have is pretty clear.

I don't know about anyone else, but if we had suddenly decided to influence Ixthiaxa I'd have simply bailed and went to see what Hallifax was doing.

That's going to be a problem, because not all organizations participate heavily on the illithoid-kephera conflict. Kephera are not wholly banned from Glomdoring - Sadhyra comes to mind (outstanding Glomdoring character who was kephera, despite a few...events).

But the undervault kephera, in contrast to the surface kephera, are pretty monolithic when it comes to being against the illithoids, aren't they?

So idea.

If Serenwilde doesn't want the Soulless village, okay. PROBLEM SOLVED.

This thread has accomplished nothing except mass bickering.

Also, I'd be really annoyed if Gaudiguch and Hallifax got shoehorned into the Kephera/Illithoid thing (and thus into the taint/non-taint thing and working with soulless thing). Would be nice to see them figure that out on their own. Although if/when they get monks, that will of course all go to hell, I guess.

Yes, but as I said, Glomdoring doesn't heavily support one side or another.

For the last time, we did not have a huge headstart. It is entirely unfair to suggest that the village was given to Hallifax. We won the village because of better organisation of our scarce resources (our limited number of influencers). Even without the small headstart, I think Hallifax would have won, albeit it taking longer. To say that we were just handed the village totally undermines the work that Hallifax did in Ptoma.