To be fair, if you told Viravain near the time of Glomdoring's opening that the commune was destined to get in bed with Illith, anyone saying so would have been considered a traitor to nature and probably killed.

And now, Viravain clearly doesn't mind illithoids, while both Lisaera and Charune still utterly despise them without exception. I don't know Maylea's thoughts off hand.

Which would be almost entirely untrue.

1) We did the event, we were supposed to get Monks first. Instead the Illithoid decided to teach Magnagora instead.
2) The Illithoid didn't even provide the teaching, they were just middle-men for Grandmother Scorpion (who we have since found)
3) We were never really allies.

Just because someone typed it in a help file doesn't make it factual.

Research first, please.

My professor for computer languages didn't write any of the languages we study, so I guess he really isn't my teacher? I get the point you're trying to make, but still.

Read it again.

Teaching "their" ancient arts.

Not theirs at all!

(I'm just pointing out inaccuracies in the snippet that he's trying to pass off as fact)

Oh, well should have put it that way to start, much easier to understand. =p

Then that has gone the way of the dodo since open beta.

Let me offer Glomdoring as an example. Setting aside the fact that Glomdorians tend to have goth-like appearances; that Glomdorian faelings become twisted, unnatural shades as they progress in their chosen class; that there are zombies, slimes, giant spiders, shadows, undead skeleton warriors, and other terrifying creatures roaming about freely; and that many Glomdoring-specific abilities, like Shadowbeat or Totems, have vile, vicious effects and/or summon evil-looking, demonic creatures....

Aside from all that, which can be excused as merely superficial, the overarching philosophies of Brother Crow and Mother Night involve crushing the weak to achieve your latest goal, purposely lying to oneself about past failures and inadequacies, manipulating people and using them as tools to further your own agenda, showing no mercy to one's enemies (and precious little to anyone else), and so on and so forth.

If you magically found yourself (as in you, the human being at the keyboard) transported to Lusternia made real, you would not go to the Glomdoring. It's like a tree-filled version of Mordor.

So regardless of whether all orgs believe themselves to be reaching for the greater good, some are definitely more evil than others.

EDIT: And while you could argue that the game's designers didn't intend for Glomdoring being the black in black-and-white from the beginning, generally when a place looks, smells, sounds, feels and tastes like an evil stronghold, that's going to be the way it evolves. But hey, maybe Brother Crow and Mother Night's philosophies weren't set in stone at the beginning?

Xenthos, first you said the help file was wrong. Then you said that what really happened is that the Illithoids helped Glomdoring to learn a martial art that belonged to someone else. Then you said that this is actually what the help file says. Which would mean that the help file is correct?

I was referring of course to the "pact" mentioned in the help file, not to whose martial arts they were. Whose martial arts they are is not an important factor here, because they don't need to have been the Illithoid's martial arts for a pact to have existed, because a pact could be for any number of things, including for the Illithoid's aid to Glomdoring-- as in the version of the event you described.

If Glomdoring decides in the future that they aren't partial to Illithoids any longer, that's their choice. But it shouldn't change the fact that the undervault Kephera have no reason to side with the surface people who helped the undervault Illithoids in this event and in past events, to the detriment of the undervault Kephera's interests. If the admin took up this stance and divided the two villages based on this plausible RP that they have in light of the undervault's history, then the Illithoid RP on the surface would be protected.

I haven't really been following this thread but I should point out that Ptoma and Ixthiaxa will be revolting along with the other mining villages (Rockholm, Southgard, Angkrag). So with 5 revolts, there should be more of a chance for the new orgs to get a village. Also, with so many choices of villages to choose from, I don't really imagine there should be that much drama over *having* to choose between RP and pragmatics.

I said the help file was wrong, for 3 reasons. It is wrong, for all 3 reasons. So, no, it's not correct.

The only reason Glomdoring really cares about the Illithoid is because the Kepherans attacked us and the Illithoid are used to get back at them. If not for that, we'd also not have helped them with the whole Avatar thing, etc.

Like I said; please do some research first before just quoting help files.

Oh geez, that was unexpected. I was thinking they'd be a separate bracket of their own.

Man, looking forward to the chaos.

Except I quoted it to show the existence of a pact having been made at some point, and the only way you have contested this is to assert that you were never "really" allies with them... but that they did help you for some reason (which you don't go into). Yet, since both sides made a deal and both sides seem to have gotten what they wanted, it looks like a pact to me, and that would make the help file correct.

As for your three "reasons" why it's wrong:
1) The help file I quoted has nothing to do with if you "deserved" to get monks first, so it can neither be wrong nor right there. It only says that there was a pact and that the Illithoids helped Glomdoring to learn a martial art.

2) You said that the help file means they served as middle-men to help Glomdoring learn the martial art, so you've conceded that it's correct there.

3) Whether or not you were "really" allies with them, as already discussed, doesn't matter in relation to whether or not there was a pact formed. And since both Glomdoring and the Illithoids got what they wanted, that meets the definition of a pact.

So in conclusion, all three of your asserted reasons are incorrect.

That's interesting. What about the dynamics between the new villages (eg Competitors, Hostile or Enemies)?

1) The help file says that they made a pact to teach us their arts. This they did not do.
2) We were instead given the arts of the Scorpion, which we ended up getting via the Scorpion themselves (and the Nekotai 'worship' directly)
3) Again. Please, do some research before just quoting a help file as though it is the Be-All End-All truth. We didn't help the Illithoid for their Monks in particular, we didn't even want to help them in the first place. We ended up getting involved as part of an event where we were "forced" to participate, which ended up shaping our path; not to help the Illithoid, not to be their super-duper-bestest-ever-friends, but to squish bugs at every opportunity possible.

Can we get a list of what the village feelings mean please?

It took 5 seconds from the thread's origination for us to be told to 'cool it down' but once half of Glomdoring starts Smug™ging up the air nobody utters a word.

Let me turn a fan on, at least.

The beginnings of Glomdoring are quite unique compared to the beginnings of Hallifax and Gaudiguch. Glomdoring was Viravain's forest. She was the end all be all period. Guild and commune leaders were chosen by Her. The tenets were there, but you had different factions trying to influence such. The Summer Court (Pre tainted Viravain's order), the Disciples of Crow, and the Night Coven, as well as different others from each of the different cities and communes, no Wyrd it was tainted forest (But Glomdoring wasnt tainted), eventually leading up to many dramatic events involving the attempts to kick Viravain out of Glomdoring, the creation of the Wyrd, toxic oh-no Glomdoring, and so on until what it is today. Much was learned from those days... much was learned...

Back to the topic....

Each city/commune has an over-arching philosophy that can supercede the underlying tenets of the ideals of the Supernals/Demon Lords/Avatars/Aspects. So regardless of Mother Night and Brother Crows teachings the ideal that "Nothing Matters but Glomdoring" can be invoked over the others to achieve a certain goal that would best serve the commune. In the beginning before NMBG it was Viravain. In Celest, even with Raziela, you had Isune from the beginning saying compassion = slaying tainted. Serenwilde it was the whole Farella not attempting to save Gloriana or Ackleberry that was used to say we have to do what we have to do to survive.

One of the biggest things about Lusternia (IMHO) is moral ambiguity. Each nation believes that they are right and just in their actions. Its been some time since I was in Magnagora but the tenets of the Demon Lords, while evil in what we think of the sense, are not looked upon as evil by its citizens. Niflehema (sp?) is all about torture, but you dont do so because it is evil and you are evil. Following such furthers the goals of Magnagora - transformation and strength through the taint, and furthering those goals is 'good'.

No idea what Mordor is so you lost me there....

By all this, do you mean to imply that all orgs are more or less equally limited or unlimited by their intended roleplay? If so, it's my opinion that this is not the case.

Mordor was the evil, tainted land (and city) in J.R.R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy. It was ruled by a powerful necromancer named Sauron, and populated by all manner of foul creatures.

I am very surprised you've never heard of Mordor. That trilogy (and its prequel, The Hobbit) is literally the progenitor of the entire medieval fantasy genre!

If you've never read the books, you should. You're in for a treat. They portray a rich, immersive fantasy world, still just as good as anything you'll find in print today, and better in many cases.