It is my opinion that the decay of trans trade skill items should not be subject to alteration through extraordinary means, such as slipping them in and out of a stockroom before the "decay tick" takes place. While creative and apparently widespread, this strikes me as a circumvention of intended game mechanics.

On a related note, I incited an argument elsewhere about the validity of characters having multiple trans trade skill items in their possession at once. Players were given the green light years ago by a producer to do this, and that was a trump card to my assumption that it was an unintended loophole. I lost that half of the argument.

However, the other half of my argument -- decay circumvention -- still stands. It seems to me that stockrooms are a courtesy to merchants so that their goods don't lose durability before they're sold, not a tool with which to vastly increase the lifespan of a trans trade item (up to 1 RL year, apparently).

I hope that this is not misconstrued as an attack on persons who have become attached to having their trade skill items lasting 1 RL year, without actually having the skill anymore. I think that decay timer is set to a certain number for a reason, though.

Lusternia has made an excellent impression on me since I have been here, but these particular issues simply struck me as being an unfortunate state of affairs. I feel strongly enough about this to press it, knowing full well that many people cannot completely separate OOC emotions from IC emotions, and that my character could face consequences because of it.

I honestly think you're overreacting in any case, it doesn't "hurt" anything, and the people who have the trans items had to pay for them.

let's go categorically here.

First off, for tailoring, we have artisan wardrobes, which prevent decay, so you can stick your splendours there.

Artisan, moot point.

Jewelry, we have jewelryboxes, which halve the decay rate of jewelry.

Additionally, both tailored and jeweler-ed items can be repaired.So, as you can see, many of these items are designed to be nearly non-decay anyways. The only ones I can think of that get around this are roseglasses (are they jewelry?) and the herb stone thingy, but neither of those are all that game-breaking.

I don't believe aeon and choke should slow down things which don't require equilibrium or balance, like clotting, rift, insomnia, and so on. Discuss.



On another note, I agree about the stockroom thing and trans items. So long as this is primarily about storing trans items in stockrooms and not about using trans items when you no longer have the skillset.

How about just making shops halve the decay rate instead of stopping it entirely, to encourage people to actually sell things from shops? *coughInagincough*

I keep hearing that it's not a big deal, and yet apparently it's a big enough deal that people want to buy credits, convert the credits to bound credits, convert the bound credits to lessons, trans a skill, make the item, forget the skill, and then take the time to place the trans trade skill item into a stockroom whenever possible, for the next RL year (apparently).

I know people disagree with me, but you don't purchase skills. You purchase credits, and then conceivably you purchase lessons, since they're basically interchangeable. After that, what you do with them is your responsibility. You can give credits away, sell them for 100 gold each on the market, tri-trans all your Harbinger skills then decide to change guilds the next day....

Only artifacts and lessons placed in a skill (unless you forget that skill) have a "lifetime guarantee" enforced by the administrators. You will notice that while apparently collecting trans trade items is ALLOWED, it is clearly a risk. They can be stolen by other players, the game rules could be changed so you can only have one (IRE EULA provides for this), and I certainly don't believe that just because someone planned to use a stockroom to keep their item for 1 RL year, means they are entitled to do so, or that it is in any way kosher.

I actually think I agree... I am overreacting. But the stockroom thing and also the learn/forget/keep trans item thing (which while allowed, still really bugs me) just bother me. It bothers me that if I trans Bookbinding, ply the trade and earn my magic tome, three-quarters of the PK elite (who aren't Bookbinders, and only were for five minutes) have magic tomes simply because it lets them stomp people a bit harder in combat. Yes, I know magic tomes are a bad example.

It seems as though no one has yet understood why that bothers me. Is it really illogical to feel that a skill is cheapened if everyone is walking around with the special item from that skill (actually from several at once)? Is feeling that way something to be hated and reviled for?

EDIT: Of course, my main point in this thread is that only the player who creates a trans trade skill item can ever use it. Therefore, it doesn't make sense for it to be placed in a stockroom anyway, as stockrooms are intended for items that will actually be sold. And even if it can be placed in a stockroom, because we know it's not going to be bought and used (it is useless to anyone but the owner), it makes no sense to halt its decay in any way.

It seems like you feel strongly that trans trade items are a result of working hard at your trade, making money, and using that to fund the skill, while others just bought theirs straight up. If you feel that way, there really is no help for it. Trade skills have many uses, from making money to being convenient to getting the trans item. All of those are perfectly valid reasons to learn the skill. It's like saying "My trans Discipline is lessoned because everyone has it."

Also, you don't need a stockroom to keep an item for almost a year. That's the natural decay time of trans trade items.

This was pretty much made a complete nonissue (or at least made far less of one) with the skillflex system. Now rather than switching infrequently but at a cost each time when you finally let something decay by accident, you can just switch back more regularly but at minimal cost (5050*2=100 lessons? Seriously?). It just costs you a bit more first time round. Wouldn't surprise me if, after peoples' things decay this time (which they eventually will), they'll keep their current trans skill in dormancy, learn the other one at the full cost, then put it in dormancy and switch back.

People will probably still extend the time they're kept for with stockrooms, but it's less important now.

What?

If people want to pay/spend the credits just to get the trans trade item, let them.

Like Esano said, with the advent of Skillflex, this becomes a nonissue now since even more people can do it in addition to being able to easily replace the trade item if they lose it or it decays.

Well, if the stockroom doesn't do anything at all for trans trade skill items, then this thread is basically over. I was under the impression that it did, and if does, I don't think that it should.

In any case, I'm throwing my hands up in defeat here. If it is important enough to players to max themselves out to such a degree that they learn and forget five or six skills just for the items, so be it. It would be so much easier on everyone just to not do it, I would think, but I guess if three guys do it, everyone does it to stay competitive. Makes sense, but I think it takes away from the allure of the skills (whether you buy 300 credits to trans it or do it the hard way).

If it represents an important enough credit sink to the administration, so be it. I don't begrudge them funds at all, but I still think it would ultimately benefit the game to have something sacred that cannot be purchased with money alone.

I think most tradeskills are creative labors of love for many people (otherwise Cartels wouldn't be so popular), and to me, a bunch of people walking around with a magic tome (but not the skill) wouldn't be too different from everyone with the cash having the ability to use Shadowbeat's Dirge because they grabbed the skillset, trans-ed it, and then dropped it.

We have lots of these.

The stockroom does prevent decay on trans trade items. However, due to skillflex, the effect of decay on trans trade items is now mitigated, as they can be replaced much more easily. Thus, the effect of using a stockroom to counter decay is also mitigated.



There is a massive difference in terms of combat balance. That's the difference. And combat is important. It's the basis behind a lot of events, conflicts, quests, inter-org relations, and it's the cash cow. Even without the numbers, I'm fairly confident in saying that what has been spent for combat-related purposes is a clear and vast majority of Lusternia's income. Minor 'imbalances' are part of the pay-for-perks system, and the differences provided by tradeskill items rank nowhere near that of prime skills (assuming you were capable of using them without the earlier abilities, as you are with trade ones). The envoy system and similar things are designed to even out other imbalances so that combat becomes more attractive, and a large amount of manpower was recently placed into making it more accessible.

Echoing what's been said: As soon as trans trade skills stacked together in a way that you become Voltron, then it'll be nerfed or made impossible. The example about buying shadowbeat and getting dirge doesn't work just because it's more related to combat (and therefore is subject to intense scrutiny) than tradeskills will ever be.

People have said that they don't mind if trans trade items decay in stockrooms, and I agree there, especially with skillflex.

I'll just reiterate not to get all nasty and grumpy on this thread - when you've made your point and all you have left is to angrily thump your bible and shout your point in all caps, there's really no point in posting.

Goes to both sides of the aisle.

Related to combat, other than level 100, VA status, or being limited in skills by guild? Are there unique event rewards that are non-tradeable?

I've never heard of anyone being unable to purchase lessons, artifacts, or crafted equipment. Theoretically, you can buy two of each artifact, three of every mundane item in the game that applies to combat (vial, armor, weapon, etc.), and of course, grab all the trans trade items you can.

What would someone be missing, then? Being restricted to one trans trade item would seem to me one of the few times you just have to pick one or the other, but not both (or all). Specializations, maybe...?

There's at least the orgbix. Likely more that I've never heard of or forgot about right now.

There's also the 'sticky dingbats' given out from the Czigany Wayfaire when it comes around, things like that.

To be honest, I counted those as purchasable, even though they were time-limited. But yes, those as well.

EDIT: Or, I might've completely misunderstood. Sticky dingbats? Not the limited dingbat-arties?

Medallions from ascension!

I'm not sure which way to go at this. On one hand, you say it's not about combat balance. On the other, you want your feel-good to be a combat thing.

To answer your question, yes, there are unique event rewards with combat applications that are non-tradeable. We give out nine every year. There are similar quest rewards (like the orgbix mentioned above). You're also awfully quick to dismiss demigod and ascendance as things that don't count. There are more trans tradepeople than VAs. It's just not that special. Plus, you buy your trans trade item just like anything else. Buying one instead of two doesn't change how you got your one.

Real marks of esteem are generally not bought by any means. Positions of authority, honors lines, nifty sculptures of you in your guildhall engraved with your eternal words of wisdom, promotion to ephemeral or god, you can't buy these things. The community would likely be upset if you could. A tradeskill, though? A tradeskill is transient and trivial.