Hey, I gave Kalin aero lines with my alt! I gave him aero lines right in his face until he died.

Hey I wasn't refusing to give you lines. I just wasn't going to waste flesh I didn't have yet on giving you lines before I even knew what the lines were myself.

As to the guild argument. Rika is being typically daft, everyone has access to the lines OOC, the argument on GT was obviously not about "omg can't let them learn the lines" it was about a guild member being paid to go in the arena with a hallifaxian to help him with the lines.

Subtle difference, but important all the same.

edit:: and on another note. IC, we have every damn right to be "wtf do you think you are doing?" It's only metagaming people who say "oh they can get the lines anyways" really? can they? IC the only way they are going to get them is via a fight. IC there is no "lines" or "other means to acquire them" other than someone betraying the guild and teaching our secrets.. Now it's a fine line to walk when punishment comes around, but coming to the forums and making a 'rant' about it is pretty immature.

Have you seen people who come back from inactivity and have forgotten pretty much everything? That's... actually pretty much how it goes, every time. And you mention that you, the player, have that kind of sense; note that I am asking about your character here, not you (if we're going based on your knowledge, then we're firmly in the area of 'character should be held to higher RP standards because it is an alt, and thus not know everything the player does').

I will say that knowing you hunted there in the past does assuage some of the suspicion, so, fine. At the same time, you still admit to this character just coming back. Just learning skills. And being immediately ready to run off and kill a hag just to foil 'the enemy'. From my end, I'm still not buying it.

Yeah, I know.

Just so my point isn't miscontrued, besides the obvious trolling, my issue, if anything, is when people post saying 'well you don't even know what the skill does' on the forums but then when you ask them to demonstrate, they then go 'well I can't really do that, since ICly, we're enemies, you know'.

I should just guildhop to every new guild since you know I'd always give you the lines. I'm cool somedays.

I typically assume a grace period, especially when envoys are concerned, to gather 'intel' on new skills, but after said grace period, there comes a point where IC has to come back into play and Chixanga was in her right to bitch about the actions of the guild member in helping an enemy at this point.

I am arguing that the help file relating to alts specifically states that said alts should be held to a much higher level of roleplay, and if said alt is used in such a way as this, then I feel no qualms / regrets about said alt having its OOC-controller exposed in areas where it is allowed.

Deserves? Maybe, maybe not. That's a different argument, though; I just don't see it as being tacky or against some kind of moral code if the alt's acting like an alt.

Let me explain why the metagaming thing pisses me off.


Last year roughly around August/September/October, I took a hiatus from Lusternia. I sucked at ninjakari combat, I spent 16 hours a day online because I was out of work, and so on. I didn't play, I didn't browse the forums, I gave my manse to Sahmiam and my jewelry cartel to Janalon. During that time I kept in touch with a few friends, one of which was high ranking in Celest. He complained that Celest was always getting the crap kicked out of them, nobody cared, and people were basically all making Mag alts. I decided to "start over" and play something I usually don't, a Celestian. Thus, Pesukaru was born.

It went fine for a while, he advanced quickly in the guild and city, and sort of made friends with a divine I had always clashed with ( <3 Terentia ). One day, Lorina noticed that I apparently posted something on the forums that only Pesu would know, or some rot, and she outed me here. Suddenly, I got all sorts of tells.

as Pesukaru
(( hey, mind logging onto Shaddus to make me a cabinet? ))
((Hey, I need some instruments for the Caco guild. Once you can get on Shaddus, mind letting me know?))
(( Hey, cityfavour so and so when you can, for raiding Celestia))
((Dude, I always knew Shaddus was a dick.)) <<-- seriously

or as Shaddus

(Hey, I need a cube charged. Got some time? ))
(Hey, the guild shop needs rings enchanted. I'll pay you of course. ))

and so on. Once, I was refused Ninjakari guild credits because "I was inactive". Since the guildmaster had just killed Pesukaru an hour prior in Celestia, apparently Shaddus was inactive, though he had an 8 vote rating. Considering I spent about 2 hours a day in my manse as Shaddus designing things, his vote rating wasn't perfect, but it stayed put for the most part. Other times, people would aim for Pesukaru on purpose in battle, and laugh at me if I logged on later as Shaddus. I mean, wtf.

So, yeah. I hate when people know who my alts are, because people -do- act differently.

SO BASICALLY.. you're saying that my alt's sleeping should have forgotten everything about Lusternia? Geez, sir. How do I get the healing stuff out of this vial? What's a fae? Is that some sort of icecream? What's wrong with an illithoid, they look all constipated.

Things that your character hasn't seen before, yes. Other things should be very rusty. For example, "It's been a long time since I've been there, how might I find it again?" As I said, I'd expect you to play the character as if it really had been sleeping for all that time.

That said, I can understand the frustration the other way too. Outing alts who are doing their own thing is something else entirely in my mind; I just still don't agree that this character should have been able to know everything that you (the player) knew in order to pull this off, especially after having been gone so long. Unless it has perfect recall, in which case I should be able to ask it about conversations it had during the month it was being played and it should be able to remember them all.

(Which I guess is possible if you're one of those religious loggers. Are you?)

As you'd expect? Okay this is just so utterly ridiculous, are you really being serious? You don't need perfect recall in order to pick up old tricks and knowledge again quickly. I haven't visited or really thought about the neighborhood I lived in when I was real little in nearly 18 years, and can still recall vividly how to get around it.

That a new or un-retired character HAS to act clueless for certain amount of time is completely unreasonable. Ever heard of a quick learner or, 'never forgetting how to ride a bike' ?

It's like you guys haven't ever argued with Xenthos or something!

Re: Showing skills - I think there should be some OOC consideration given regardless of the time, especially given that envoy reports are done that literally changes skills every month or so. I mean, I'd like it if I didn't have to crawl and beg after every report for the new changed lines, and while I'm sure I probably will never have to, it's always been a concern in my mind that some players will resort to doing this for the PWN.

No, I'm afraid I don't log that often. As for remembering.... all I had to do was remember how to get to Hifarae, I had to study Moonburst to learn how to use it, and so on. Unless you're suggesting alts shouldn't use systems for a certain amount of time, I didn't have a problem there either.

Guys, why are you arguing with Xenthos? You can't win.

It was against my better judgement to reply again, but that one statement was just so ridiculous to me, that I gave in.

So, how bout that Shikari?

Yes, I'm being quite serious. I did state that you can argue one way or the other; I, however, am firmly of the opinion that if this character had been someone who had just come back and bought credits / started learning, it would not have done what it did.

That said, I've been told that I am perhaps being a bit harsh here, so I will not continue from this point; that is, however, my stance.

Difference between:

tell kalin OOC: oh hey, your skill text changed/skill does something different now. Can I see it so I can put the line on the forum in my thread?

and

tell kalin if I give you 1000 gold will you go in the arena with me and hit me with all your skills so I can make sure I am curing them properly?

Again, the difference may be subtle, but it's still important. I am sure you see that.

Shaddus, thanks for making this easy for me. You do realize I can see who buys what, both in the guild shop AND from the guild tutor? The guild tutor sells basic supplies dirt cheap for the benefit of novices just starting out. Not so your credit-rich alt can buy 5 vitae and crap. So yeah, your alt is banned from the guild tutor. Don't try it again.

Though soon the guild tutor and guild shop setup will be changed altogether anyway so you won't be able to try it again. But ugh, seriously, that was horrible of you. Especially given the last guild news post Aubrey made, which you would have read and pretended to give a damn about if you were actually RPing instead of, oh, I dunno, metagaming.