When I found out about bookbinding my eyes went the eyes of saucers and my inner bibliophile/writer gave off a huge 'squee'. However I quickly realized that there are some serious problems with it as a trade.

1) Lack of demand. It isn't that people aren't writing things, it's just that they really don't need bookbinders to do so with the way things are set up currently.

2) Extremely broken formatting in books. The ability to fit as much on any single numbered 'line' (more appropriately a paragraph) as you can without lagging the server, combined with the ability to fit a nigh unlimited amount of numbered lines per page, means that anything larger than a scroll is unnecessary. Even if you use each 'page' to categorize information in separate chapters, you're still fitting novels into journals, which according to their information should only be 20 pages (which should only fit approximately 10K words if you're lucky)

3) The inability to actually publish books. This is a big one. Other than BOOKCOPY, which is more in tune with an illegal copy, you can't legitimately duplicate another character's texts. As a bookbinder, this capability, to create legitimate copies of original books, should definitely be included in the skill.

4) This one is a big one. The Library system. Currently, the cost of registering a text in the library, and of making copies, doesn't differentiate at all between the size of texts. Whether scroll or omnibus in length, it all costs the same. It can also only be lent out for the same length of time, at the exact same fees, whether it's a newspaper or the Encyclopedia Magnagoria.



Suggestions:

1.) Make Bookbinders an essential part of well... writing things! There are dozens of ways it could be done. If you gave bookbinders the ability to make single page letters as a skill beneath scrolls and pamphlets, and then slightly increased the price of directly purchasing letters from the Post office, it has gained a great deal more use. If you modify News posts so they must submitted in written format in the Newsroom (buy a letter, scroll, or pamphlet, write your news post on it, and submit it) you have even more use for bookbinding.

These things aren't 'dramatic misapplications' of the skill, but things which logically -should- require a bookbinder's arts. It would also add an extra layer of submersion in the game for players if 'writing up a news post' actually entailed putting quill to page.


2.) Put a realistic page wrap on physical writing mediums. As it stands now, you can fit an epic novel onto a single page of a pamphlet. The page will expand nearly indefinitely to fit it.

With a page wrap the excess words would automatically spill over onto longer pages. It would require appropriately sized texts for writings of certain length. In doing so it would make 8 skills in the Bookbinding trade worth existing again (all of the book creation skills larger than pamphlets).

It would also mean that authors of works longer than 10K+ words (usually more than 20 pages) of Book length and actually make the Royalties system applicable. In the same stroke it would mean that even if for cultural submissions alone, bookbinders would have at least some form of legitimate application of their trade, other than as wanna-be enchanters.

Besides, it just doesn't make sense that a page would expand like that. Length wrapping pages is more realistic, makes greater economic sense for both bookbinders and in-game authors, and make a lot of the effort already put into it worthwhile.


3.) The problem with no ability to actually publish something is easily solved:

AB BOOKBINDING SERIALIZATION

BOOKBIND SERIALIZE BY for
BOOKBIND PUBLISH IN
BOOKBIND SELL FOR TO

Purchase the serialization rights to another's book with their agreement. This skill produces a single Manuscript of a given book.

A publisher may publish the contents of a manuscript into a blank book of equal type to the original. Published books take on the original book's title and author, but have the publisher's name listed and are considered permanently SEALed.

Only one manuscript can exist from an original book at any given time. A Manuscript decays after 96 months.

When a bookbinder sells a published book, the author receives the royalties percentage appropriate to its type. However the book is now linked to the person who purchased it. It will return to that person after a set period of time if not on a bookshelf and can only be shelved by the person who purchased the book.


4.) This last problem is almost as huge as #2. Librarians really need to ability to deal with literature based on its 'type'. It will encourage the acceptance of more small documents if your 2 page report on local whatever costs significantly less than the massive Omnibus of Serenwilde Flora and Fauna. Librarians should be able to differentiate it, so your 2 page report will cost less than the omnibus to check out and circulate faster as it has a shorter due date.




There are quite a few other things that could be done, but these fairly simple solutions (Especially 2 and 4) would have a huge benefit to the entire world, as well as just to we few bookbinders.

I believe it's been said repeatedly that Bookbinders aren't there to make money, any requested improvement is almost always denied, some interesting ideas, though!

Wait? The administration said that one of their trade skills isn't supposed to make money? You've tried to get some of those issues fixed (especially 2 and 4) and they've denied it? You've gotta be kidding me, right? Please tell me you're kidding me.

The administration would never say such things, but it's the general consensus that most trade skills are for fun more than profit.

I want bookbinders to make me awesome sorcelglass designs, but I've not found one with the time more than once, and the designs available to him were a bit lackluster.

All of those were mainly RP related fixes though. The profitability increase was just a byproduct of making things make sense from a role-play aspect. A single page shouldn't be able to fit a full length epic novel. It shouldn't be able to fit much more than 650 words (even if it doesn't have any paragraph breaks). It's a heavy strain on suspension of disbelief.

The lack of a true publishing ability (I'm looking right at you BOOKCOPY) actively discourages the creation of IC literary works outside of those appearing in public libraries, simply because authors can't recieve royalties for their work and have no impetuous to create them other than every so often as something to get their city/commune an extra 1000 power...



The unwieldiness of the library system makes it (currently) just a way of turning gold into power 10,000 gold at a time (the cost of registering something, regardless of size).

If you want to enrich the culture of the game, you need to increase the demand for its written works alongside it. Don't tell me there isn't enough demand. That's BS. Demand isn't something that 'exists' or 'doesn't exist'. Demand is something that is either 'made' or 'not made'. Especially in a text based game where the only limits are the coder's ability and the creators creativity.

If you give librarians the power to set different fees and due dates for different sized texts, then you have instantly increased demand by libraries for new written works, and instantly increased the demand for cultural growth (and no, I don't mean in terms of game mechanics, I mean in terms of fun and RP).

Simultaneously, by length-wrapping pages you encourage more written works, as all works a bit above 10K words then require a Book or Compendium, and hence grant Royalties (which most people don't even know exist, or what the hell they do either. Until last month a very respected head Librarian of a Great Library had no idea what they were, so this isn't just a minor thing.)

This in turn further enhances culture by increasing the number of people who view submitting to a library as a worthwhile pursuit.

Finally, why in the world are libraries just shelling out 5K to a section of code to have a copy of a book made? I mean, there are these people called bookbinders who can make... oh wait!


If you throw in the bookbinding skill I mentioned, then instead libraries shelling out 10K to the codeMonster to publish it, give the Librarians the ability to SERIALIZE a manuscript for the library. The gold goes to the author, where it belongs, and the Library can pay bookbinders to make working copies of the books!

Wow! What an amazing idea... role-play paying authors who role-play writing books, rather than role-playing paying the codeMonster and trying to use city/commune funds and favors to pay off contributors. Even more amazing? Role play paying bookbinders to role play making more copies of a book for your library!

Sounds like a lot more fun the whole way around for me. More books, more people writing them, more people reading them, more incentive to care. Oh look, a huge increase in the overall cultural depth of the game to boot!

Amazing!

Apologies... I became increasingly more cynical as I wrote this post. I may edit it if my cynicism abates

Alas, if only you wouldn't mind something stemming from my cartel. I like making random things for people, and all they have to do is give me a theme and the submission fee if they wanted it made for them.

/hijack

But anyways, there was a recent envoy to shift the possibility of opening up the market of Bookbinders wider, but the admin didn't accept it, so it's not unfounded that some suggestions to make Bookbinding more profitable would fall through.

Good luck with the suggestions though!

Every tradeskill has its goods points and bad points. Even with all the issues you may have with bookbinding, you will still find more of them than brewmeisters and tinkerers combined....

While it isnt profitable, hey, you get to speak numerous languages!

Which has very little to do with actual Bookbinding... why not rename the skill Languages and give them the ability to make scrolls and change the way glassware looks?

Honestly, profitability isn't my concern here. I just want to be able to use my Bookbinding skill to... Bind books. As it is now, the only parts of the skill worth noting have absolutely nothing to do with... Binding books.

To tell the truth, only one of the suggestions involved any changes to the bookbinding skill itself. Mostly the suggestions were about things that have obviously been over looked, or much needed changes to the way libraries can handle things. In large part they're only fixes or refinements of what look like essentially placeholder mechanics.

If someone cares to lay out a clear, concise proposal devoid of sarcasm and hyperbole, I'd be happy to look at it. My preference is simple bullet points with just the basic facts and suggestions--long explanations and justifications aren't needed.

FYI, libraries and books represent some fairly delicate code, some of which may not be easily tweakable.

My thanks and apologies simultaneously.

Top priority stuff-

Issue:
*There is no real limit on page length to necessitate the use of a larger book for large quantities of writing.
Proposed solution:
*Page length wrapping for all written works to a suggested 650 words per page

Issue:
*Inability of Bookbinders to create post-able stationary
Proposed solution:
*Include the capacity to create letters for mailing.
(Multiple contributors to this suggestion)

Issue:
*Requiring a gold cost on top of commodities makes the process psychologically intimidating for buyers who are already providing commodities
Proposed solution:
*Replace gold costs with the addition of more commodities or inks appropriate to the size and type of document.
(Thanks Amani especially for your contribution to this issue)

Idea:
Have Newsrooms take pre-written letters, scrolls, etc for posting rather than have a 'composer', and then just un-page-wrapping them.


___________end of top priority___________

Stuff about Libraries:

Issue:
*Libraries must apply the same fees and periods to all documents, regardless of length
Proposed solution:
*Allow Libraries to assign separate fees and periods to texts of different class (scroll/pamphlet, journal/textbook, book/compendium, manual/codex, tome/omnibus

Issue:
*Libraries pay the same archival and copying costs for books, regardless of length
Proposed solution:
*Allow libraries to pay different archival and copying fees for texts of different classes


... still refining this post, it's hard to really deal with all of the sarcasm and depression regarding this skill when trying to put ideas together...

Pruxi's comments made me realize that things would probably make more sense if the skill were specialized after a certain point into scribes/notaries, but I'm not sure what the heck to say about that

Wow, there's a lot going on there!

I can see a project of that magnitude taking a coder out for a month and honestly I'm not sure I can justify that for libraries/bookbinding at this time.

If you could only have 1-3 of these suggestions implemented, what would they be and in what priority?

pssssst... report 315... no combat effect, only useful for helping novices get an easier start in the world, and giving bookbinders a recurring business... universally supported by envoys and on the forum.... pssssst....

No, sorry, that was rejected for a reason!

Wish we knew what the reason was! It might help us find what you are looking for. (Or, might suggest that the idea wasn't really stated clearly and the reason's based on a misunderstanding... which is probably why you don't want to tell me -- you don't want me to argue with you again! I can understand that. I'm a pain.)

Morrigan's stated reason for this thread to help make binding of books more useful isn't really addressed with report 315. Just saying!

In any event, we don't really want more containers that preserve items, even if the stated goal is to help novices (which you and I both know wouldn't be its only use). That said, we really liked the idea of origami and we actually made it an outstanding design project for bookbinding!

Ah, see, there's the misunderstanding: it wasn't meant to preserve its contents, just that the container itself would last a while, so the person who stocks them could get a bunch done in advance and not have to restock every year because the packs decayed. (The contents would typically be herb starter kits that don't decay anyway, maybe some vials which last a long time already, etc.)

Though the report does seem to suggest Nejii thought it was intended to prevent decay on the contents, or at least he worded it in a way that suggests that.

(The only other use I came up with would be for delivery pets/dirigibles.)

gha, sorry, I'm editing and changing it as people talk to me!

My thanks and apologies simultaneously.

Top priority stuff-

Issue:
*There is no real limit on page length to necessitate the use of a larger book for large quantities of writing.
Proposed solution:
*Page length wrapping for all written works to a suggested 650 words per page

Issue:
*Inability of Bookbinders to create post-able stationary
Proposed solution:
*Include the capacity to create letters for mailing.
(Multiple contributors to this suggestion)

Issue:
*Requiring a gold cost on top of commodities makes the process psychologically intimidating for buyers who are already providing commodities
Proposed solution:
*Replace gold costs with the addition of more commodities or inks appropriate to the size and type of document.
(Thanks Amani especially for your contribution to this issue)

Idea:
Have Newsrooms take pre-written letters, scrolls, etc for posting rather than have a 'composer', and then just un-page-wrapping them. (Simultaneously removing the additional cost of Public posts beyond that)

___________end of top priority___________


Stuff about Libraries that would help bookbinding, but help Librarians a lot more but isn't of top priority to the bookbinders themselves (though I bet librarians would argue it's more important):

Issue:
*Libraries must apply the same fees and periods to all documents, regardless of length
Proposed solution:
*Allow Libraries to assign separate fees and periods to texts of different class (scroll/pamphlet, journal/textbook, book/compendium, manual/codex, tome/omnibus

Issue:
*Libraries pay the same archival and copying costs for books, regardless of length
Proposed solution:
*Allow libraries to pay different archival and copying fees for texts of different classes



Pruxi's comments made me realize that things would probably make more sense if the skill were specialized after a certain point into scribes/notaries, but I'm not sure how heck that would go though the idea has merit, but it's definitely not a simple thing, and definitely not for here.

My apologizes, but I ended up running one over with the top priority things!

I hope it helps, and can be feasibly code-able.

Okay, top three and in priority

1.) Set physical writing mediums to page wrap at 600 words per page

2.) Allow bookbinders to create functional letters for mailing

3.) Have Newsrooms take pre-written letters, scrolls, etc for posting rather than have a 'composer', and then just removing the page wrapping from them. (The 1000 gold fee of public posts should be mitigated)

1. I'll look into that.

2. We actually have a fairly complex design for that (using "seals/chops" that would allow custom stationary for individuals, families and orgs); however, it was ultimately felt the coding effort that it would take to implement such a design was ultimately not worth the effort. I can look at it again but sometimes what seems like neat ideas are more problematic than one thinks.

3. Instead of going into the news and writing, you would write your post on a letter first and then post it? And the letters must be written on something that bookbinders produce? I'm not sure I like this idea and will need to think about it more. There's some under-the-hood issues with storing writing that I don't want to get into but, again, it's one of those issues that sounds simple on the surface but is problematic in implementation. Why not just have a special sheet that you need to post on the news and going into the composer consumes one of those sheets?