So, getting 1-shot by monks because I don't have green or gedulah really sucks

I'm learning it, but not everyone will be able to do so, and I think it's bad for the game that you have to spend credits for this one skill to not be monk fodder.

So what do people think of this idea: you start out with green/gedulah, but it takes significantly more power (maybe like 9 power) to do before you get the appropriate skill in low/highmagic. If I'm correct, it takes 8 power for a monk to do their instant lock, so 9 power to get out of it for weaker people seems pretty reasonable to me.

I know it's going to seem non-constructive, but I say we just nerf monks instead. I sparred a couple of monks recently, and it was rather ridiculous the amount of hindering that shut my offense down 95% of the time until momentum reached that point where one combo was a full (need power to get out) lock.

They do seem to have a lot of easy hindering. That might be connected to the whole "beat your horse to build up momentum" thing though, which is its own can of worms.

Ideas:

• More levels of momentum beyond just five, to space out the timing between "hey, that's annoying" and "omg, I'm freakin' dead now."
• No momentum build on grapples.
• No speed boost for stringing forms together, perhaps not even allowing the stringing of forms (would probably also solve some of the issues with the continuation of forms).

Everything that Larkin just said I agree with.

I also support the deletion of monks.

I didn't know they got a momentum boost on grapples. That seems not only OP, it doesn't make a lot of sense because a grapple is by definition you stop someone from moving by holding them down, at which point you aren't moving yourself.

Please include bards in this. I actually quite like the bard class, but for the greater good of Lusternia, they need to go!

Oh great, next thing you know Munsia will be all up in here with the "Dlt Glomdoring"

Well, I'm personally fine with the organizations as is.

You lot need to prod your monk envoys who should be the primary ones looking into the case of monk speed right now. Especially with the tempering changes, I'm surprised no one has tossed something up yet.

A few thoughts...

- Lusternian combat is balanced around having transcendant combat skills. If you don't have green/gedulah, why are only monks a problem? Knights, guardians, wiccans and druids should be able to lock you down too.

- I can't really see how momentum building on a grapple is a huge problem. Kata grapples are slow compared to regular weapon attacks (they arent affected by weapon speed) and are pretty ineffective at hindering. It may not make sense from a realism perspective, but that shouldn't factor into combat balance.

- I'm not sure which monk guild the OP is talking about. None of the monk guild attacks which contribute to lock cost power. The monk will probably use their raze mod to get through parry/stance/rebounding on the first one (3p), but that's about it.

- The only guild I really think has a problem with how they can lock people are the shofangi. This is mainly due to the ease with which they can reapply a lock. Slit throat for 1mo and a free prone means that at 5mo they can pretty easily lock you several times in quick sucession if necessary.

They can't lock you down in one move, Placeus. There's a clear line between someone beating you easily, whatever easily is, and someone beating you in one attack. The grapple thing is odd but my main problem is the 1-hit killing.

Edit: I know that Nekotai can do slickness/sliththroat/severspine in one combo, and Shofangi can do prone/double knee break/slickness/slitthroat in one combo. Either one can't be cured without green. Maybe the other two monk guilds can't do similar things, though?

Moved to here

I like how we went from green/gedulah ideas to delete monks.

I like how monks have gone through several revisions and are still out of whack, being just about the only archetype that requires Green/Gedulah to fight, unless you just run away every 30 seconds.

Quoted from the other thread where I got quoted!

You might be assuming that the point of the suggestion is either 1. to make the one-hit locks not useful on people who don't have green/gedulah or 2. to make it so that there is no point in learning green/gedulah, and therefore the suggestion is no good.

But I don't think we want people to not need to learn the skill, just to give them a way (if not a very good one, at least it would exist) to avoid the one-hit locks. True they couldn't use their power for anything else really, but that is still preferable to being shut down the first time the combo is used and it keeps in a reason for people to learn the appropriate skills at the same time.

I'm not so much saying that Green/Gedulah would become worthless to learn as I am that these powerful combos are a problem for everyone and should be looked at instead.

Momentum on Grapple is dumb, that's my only issue with Monks as it stands. Their affliction output does seem really silly, however. I have also seen grapple being able to be used in conjunction with things like Acrobatic's version of Geyser, on top of a grapple/kick.

And I think it's a bit late to just axe Monks. However, I do think it's wholly possible to make them into a new archetype of Sages/Assassins or whatever with entirely different skillsets. Keeping the same martial prowess, but with just different mechanics guiding their offenses.

I love how Celestine combat lets you do that.