So in asking questions, i think we may have solved questions. Can someone bring some input into this?

(Aeromancers): You say, "Other than human, what other species is in our ancestry?"
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Human is not in our ancestry."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "If you are refering to hallifax that is."
(Aeromancers): You say, "We hold many human characteristics as Trills i mean."
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "Pff."
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "Humans hold many Trill characteristics, you mean."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "That would be more correct Cenydd."
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "We are formed in the image of the Elder Goddess Trillillial, who was made by the primal force called Dynara."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "The star shape is the more common form of the later elder gods."
(Aeromancers): You say, "So why do we not have a racial language?"
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "Dynara liked the shape of two arms, two legs, and a head. She called them star gods, since they had five points."
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "Some races just don't have them. I've wondered about it."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Which races?"
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Certainly some have extra features, but the basic star shape is still retained."
(Aeromancers): You say, "We are bird-like humanoids. In order to create something, you must have an idea in your head of what it is to create, to an extent. So with the beginning, being "bird-like humanoid" I was interested in knowing what bird could have been the one that mated with a human, hence the term humanoid."
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "I meant languages."
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "Erm."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Sakr, are you familiar with the creation of the elder gods?"
(Aeromancers): You say, "To an extent, yes."
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "Birds...and...humans? My goodness. Can't say I've ever heard that one before."
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "Luckily, Trill existed before humans came to these planes, so we don't need that mental image!"
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Are you aware that humans did not exist within the first world until the comming of Estarra?"
(Aeromancers): You say, "Then why are we called humanoids, with the root term human."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "I would not use the term."
(Aeromancers): You say, "The help file dedicated to trills uses it though, a file created by the admins, and maybe a god."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "I hardly think the guild administrators had much to do with such information."
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "The history on both races are very clear. If Trill are called humanoid, that's just a quirk of modern languages."
(Aeromancers): You say, "Hm. the reason I'm asking this is to see if it is possible that we could create, or re-discover our trill language."
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "Humans like having things compared to them. Don't ask me why, 'cause I say they're the ones that should be compared to things that were here first!"
(Aeromancers): You say, "Then let me ask this. can we create a language for aeromancy? A language that we can use that's separate with everyone else. If I recall correctly, Serenwilde has, as does Glomdoring. Can we have one as well?"
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Do you understand what it means to create a language?"
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "Languages aren't really something you can just up and create so easily!"
(Aeromancers): You say, "Then let me change the term, re-discover our organizational language."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "That would require evidence that one existed."
(Aeromancers): You say, "We speak common tongue now, yet isn't common tongue an invention of the humans so we could communicate to them? What language did we speak before that as trills? We communicated to each other in our common tongue, but our common tongue isn't necessarily a faeling's right?"
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "That seems like a flawed concept."
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "I feel like the modern common tongue must be closer to merian than human language."
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "What makes you believe that?"
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "Because the Celestine Empire was more or less a merian hegemony."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "The world existed before the Celestine Empire however."
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "With a common tongue?"
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "Yet the human race was not present during the time of the Celestine Empire."
(Aeromancers): You say, "One of the rules of an empire is that they must have a common tongue to communicate with each other. usually the most powerful empire would wipe out or suppress other languages and place in their own."
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "Why do you say that?"
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "However the languages of each race may have sounds that are difficult if not impossible for another race to replicate."
(Aeromancers): You say, "Because common tongue groups people together. Hence the term, common. Now you do have the language of the elder gods, but for the empire to last, it needs to have a common way of communication with each other."
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "But why do you say they would try to wipe out other languages?"
(Aeromancers): You say, "Its a part of racial superiority. We are superior to you, you speak a lower language than us. So in turn, to grant you access to the wonderous world of us, we will teach you so and so language. You will speak this language and no other."
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "Well that's a little silly."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Quite so."
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "Indeed, in all of recorded history, there is no such evidence of any event such as that."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "The common language is something that can be spoken by the members of all the various races we know of."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "This is why it would rise as the "common" language. It seems pointless to try and force other races to speak a language they may only be able to barely speak."
(Aeromancers): You say, "So did we have traders that went back and forth, and in order to trade properly, a language must have been created? Or did languages get mixed together and slurred until we have common?"
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "The common language is undoubtedly human in origin, this has been firmly established by both evidence and practical application. Note the example of the Clangorum and how their vernacular within the Common tongue, Dwarves, originated from Human dialect."
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "What evidence established that?"
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Then it stands to reason that there is a forgotten language of the trills then, would you not agree Tekora?"
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "Well if there was, I want to know how it got lost! It seems strange that we'd just up and lose an entire racial language, since the racial languages are sort of special and linked to the members of the race."
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "Like, I couldn't tell you a word of mugwumpi anymore, and I used to be fluent before I reincarnated."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Also the Viscanti would have spoken multiple differing languages."

4.14.17 The Trill Race

Descended from the Elder Goddess Trillillial, the trill are a race of
bird-like humanoids. They are very graceful and quite tall (though their
hollow bones make them rather delicate). They have beautiful feathered
wings, giving them the ability to fly, and the feathers of which range
from a soft silver to more robust browns. No trill grows hair on their
head, rather they have a cap of downy feathers. Trills prefer high
mountain ranges where their forebears built great nests. The lucidian and
the trills are the primary builders of Hallifax (which became lost in
time during the Taint Wars and and was eventually freed through the efforts
of the lucidian Saaga Shavatt), which is a city in the clouds, an architectural
wonder of crystal spires and aeromantic engineering.

(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "Not necessarily. Note the close bond between our Forebearers, Lord Xyl and Lady Trillililal. Consider the theory that They had splintered at the same time and our races developed in close concert with each other throughout our entire history."
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "By this theory, the Lucidian dialect may very well have been a shared language."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Then why do trill not speak it?"
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "Cultural distillation in the wake of the rise of the Common tongue."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Yet no other race has lost their language."
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "It seems strange that trill would allow themselves to lose a part of their bond to the lucidian like that, though."
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "Are trill indeed the only race without a language?"
(Aeromancers): You say, "Hm. I think the solution would to be ask Lady Isune. Or at least a starting point."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "The Kephera, Illithoid and Viscanti also lack their own languages."
(Aeromancers): You say, "She is the one that created us with Trillillial."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Where is this stated Sakr?"
(Aeromancers): You say, "Read HELP ISUNE."
11.1.4 ISUNE, THE AESTHETE

Colours of the Wind: Kiarlea and Fania

Once of the fourth circle, the goddess Isune was known before the Elder Wars
for such acts as painting the sky with Her sister Trillillial, making variants
of avian creatures, or granting wings to beings normally lacking them. One of
the last Elders to leave during their war against the Soulless, She witnessed
the deaths and splintering of many whom she loved, and suffered grievous
wounds Herself.

Aeons passed away in the void before the coming of Estarra drew Isune back to
Lusternia, where She quickly allied Herself with the budding city of New
Celest alongside Lacostian. She became intrigued and entranced by mortals and
their potential, often content to idly watch them and urge them to put their
talents to use. At the same time, the scars that the world and Basin of Life
still bore from the Soulless incited Her anger, and evoked Her pity.

When the Seal of Nature broke and the might of Kethuru threatened all of
creation, Isune sacrificed Herself to repair and empower the seal. The efforts
of Lacostian and many mortals succeeded in restoring Her, but this and Her
later involvement with the creation of the Wyrd of Glomdoring left Her
changed. While She may still be considered a compassionate being, She no
longer assumes Her former title. Her emphasis has fallen to the beautification
of Lusternia in body and soul, and as such, She has taken the new moniker
of 'the Aesthete.'

Isune values artistry wrought with imagination above all things. She holds the
act of making viable creations from raw materials in the highest regard, be it
blade forged of metal or a poem writ of emotion. Beauties wrought with light,
colour and sound are Her passions, and to these endeavours She now devotes
Herself.

Not all creations are valued by Isune, however. Her painful experiences and
losses during the Elder Wars have left Her with a lasting hatred for the
Soulless and anything wrought or changed by their influence, considering them
flawed and defaced works.

Her symbol is a bird of paradise upon a field of stars.

(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "She made birds, not trill."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Yes, the trill are not birds."
(Aeromancers): Phoebus says, "Well...we're shards of Trillillial, we weren't really 'created'."
(Aeromancers): You say, "Read the second line."
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "Lady Isune did not create the Trill race, Sakr. No Elder created any mortal race. Only through the splintering of an Elder or Soulless Diety can a mortal race be formed."
(Aeromancers): You say, "Making variants of avian creatures, or granting wings to beings normally lacking them."
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "The seventh circle created animals, not the mortal races."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Such is a commonly known fact, Sakr."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "Every mortal race, with the exception of the Viscanti and Humans, is a shard of an elder god."
(Aeromancers): You say, "Yes. but those lines mean she could have assisted with the creation. She is the one who painted the sky with avain-like creatures as well with her sister."
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "We were not created by Trillillial. We are Trillillial."
(Aeromancers): You say, "Ok, well the reason i brought it up, is maybe she could remember if Trillillial used a certain langauge that was different. That could be the language we lost."
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "Actually, Humans are imbued with Divine Shards as well, Saran. Note the splintering of the Nameless Son of Yudhe."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "However the Nameless Son of Yudhe is not an elder god."
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "He was still a Divine Being."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "That is not being contested, however the term Elder God refers to those Star and Primordial gods who posess a soul."
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "Then you must count Viscanti among that group, for they do indeed hold shards of Elders, twisted by the Taint though they are."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "True, though it is impossible to discern their true origins. Though such might make an interesting experiment."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "And my own origins are debatable I guess."
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "Why is it impossible? There are a number of historical accounts from within Magnagora that are dated shortly after the end of the Taint Wars, several of them refer to the subject of the formation and evolution of the Viscanti race."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "It is possible that through the tracing back of genealogy one could work out the combination of differing races that has resulted in the current viscanti."
Aeromancers): Saran says, "Though I believe there are some mutations that would not be accounted for."
(Aeromancers): Cenydd says, "Are they really that homogenous now? I thought many of them still bore trace remnants of different real races."
(Aeromancers): Saran says, "I have not spent much time studying the Viscanti. I believe there are still differing mutations, this would likely be the result of different combinations of the races in the individuals heritage."
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "They are far from homogenous, but centuries of selective breeding and eugenics has led to several of the traits that they find superior to be common among the race."
(Aeromancers): Tekora says, "A natural hardiness and endurance, the ability to metabolize noxious and poisonous substances, and an affinity to the energies of the Taint."


Saran tells you, "My conclusion is that there would need to have been a common language at the time of the Empire. As this predates humanity either this language has been lost to time and we now speak the "human" language, or the humans did not have a language of their own, learning our language when they arrived on this plane. Or that common language is actually Trill language."

How did you come to believe Isune created Trill?

Also, Trill language has been something we've asked about for ages. To no avail, but we keep asking.

Is the question, "How long can a group of Aeromancers sustain the nerdiest discussion ever?" Because, if so, you TOTALLY solved that.

(I love you guys.)

Shame I missed it! But I just would've said about the same things everyone else said.

Because I am a prophet IRL, I anticipated this discussion in 2007.

Triller

Keep in mind that Aeromancers are pretty much the nerd guild, second only to the Researchers if and when they ever open.

EDIT: Also, these might be a good read if you're interested in the Elders. Try to see if you can guess which ones sharded into which races!

Speaking of nerdiness... Is it just me, or did everybody else notice that most Hallifaxians have a pokemon avatar..... i.e. Ileein, Shedrin, and Rika

Yeah... this is not all that uncommon in Halli/Elostians order and it's generally quite fun to participate in.

if I have my way, participating in these discussions would be favourable in some way within the Researchers.

It's kind of the point of researchers, really, right next to making sure the Continuum doesn't go bat insane and turn time inside out and sideways. Like I said, the Researchers are even more of the nerd guild than the Aeros.

It was this line under HELP Isune,

Once of the fourth circle, the goddess Isune was known before the Elder Wars
for such acts as painting the sky with Her sister Trillillial, making variants
of avian creatures, or granting wings to beings normally lacking them.

So i thought you could read it as, they both created birds, dragons, and what not together, OR they could have made trills as well.

I would have roledocked you for that.



I wouldn't have here, but I would have wanted to, because there is only the thinnest veneer of roleplay lacquer over the underlying point, an out-of-character one, that new languages are created in a couple of lines of code rather than developed over years by society.

So careful, Falcon! Otherwise, that was an interesting IC debate which you should definitely consider pursuing in game. Maybe your character should research further and write a book or two.

PS: Crowtongue only came about because of years and years of the Blacktalon not only pretending to speak in a new language but actually creating a whole language. And actually learning / speaking it...

... and now I benefit by being able to speak Crowtongue without having to learn any of that.

What was crowtongue based off of? For example, isn't the moondancers Gaelic? and wouldn't Celest be Latin? for example

I'm pretty sure the scientific term for how they come up with it is "Pulled out of their ass".

I'm... pretty sure Serenwilde does not have an organizational language. If it does, someone has been hiding it from me, and now I want it.

Moondancers have no Gaelic that I know of.

And that's why I'll probably never be a Blacktalon. As cool as all that is, learning a whole new language and having to use it properly is waaaay too much work.

Might be someone was thinking about how Spiritsingers have used a bit of Manx (very closely related to Gaelic).

Before we even knew how our skills would work, we were told about some of the names being words in Manx (notably the "arrane" part of Wildarrane, and "bardoon", though there were a few others too). Ialie and I talked about it and we agreed we'd rather not shove another Earth language into Lusternia without an IC explanation for what it meant or where it came from. But the cat was out of the bag; we had no choice.

So we decided that instead of fighting an ultimately doomed battle to suppress it, we would co-opt it, and make it boringly official. From day one we told a thin story about how it was the forgotten language of Trialante (the implication being that if she had ever sharded, it would be the language the trialants spoke), and while we've never gotten any canon support for that assertion, neither has anything contradicted it. We used it for guild titles, too.

It isn't used very often -- people title themselves in it, a few people have worked it into bits of writing, and that's about it. We certainly don't sit around talking in it. So we never have had any problems like back when Qalatega posted in French and called it Delportoise, or the like. It's just official enough to almost entirely avoid the sticky problem of the IC/OOC issue, and to keep it from being used too much.

Isn't the Serenguard emote Gaelic?

All the shofangi guild ranks/official titles are derived from mongolian from memory (I have a file somewhere with the translations).

Though right now, Saran is leaning towards the idea that somehow common is actually the trill language.

Lendren, what language is Maylea using for the order?