Kante2010-07-23 05:21:43
I realize this is an old topic, but I don't think most people realize just how much :censor: Warriors have to deal with.
Before we can even hit someone, we have to take out rebounding, which is constantly put up by opponents. Then, once we attempt to hit someone, we have to worry about natural miss rate (which as a warrior with trans knighthood spec and I believe trans combat, is still lower than a trans monk). If we DO manage to hit you, we have to worry about not only stancing (which will cause a miss), but also parry, which will either just block the attack fully or partially, but it also may result in retaliation in the form of stun (trans combat), or being hit by your opponent's weapon (if they are also a warrior). If we're able to get past rebounding, natural miss rate, stance, and parry, then we can finally actually do some damage to our opponent! However, this is entirely dependent upon wounding, which while consistent on a specific person (as per opponent's armour, and your weapon stats), is still subject to RNG when it comes to afflictions. This is alleviated slightly by the use of maneuvers, but they only eliminate the other afflictions that you might get, so while you're able to pinpoint specific afflictions, it doesn't really raise the base chance of getting that affliction. Once we finally go through this process, it repeats again, except you have to take your opponent's ever-moving stance and parry into account, and thus you have to move your attacks around to thwart that (all the while, they're curing what deepwounding you ARE able to pile on).
All of this, compounded by the fact that we have little to no hindering until we get at least medium wounds on our opponent, and that the entire time our opponents are actively (and oftentimes passively) hindering us makes playing warrior an absolute bitch.
So yeah, just putting this out there. Apologies for any typos, grammar issues, or potential misinformation (there are one or two things that MIGHT be wrong, but I don't believe they are).
Before we can even hit someone, we have to take out rebounding, which is constantly put up by opponents. Then, once we attempt to hit someone, we have to worry about natural miss rate (which as a warrior with trans knighthood spec and I believe trans combat, is still lower than a trans monk). If we DO manage to hit you, we have to worry about not only stancing (which will cause a miss), but also parry, which will either just block the attack fully or partially, but it also may result in retaliation in the form of stun (trans combat), or being hit by your opponent's weapon (if they are also a warrior). If we're able to get past rebounding, natural miss rate, stance, and parry, then we can finally actually do some damage to our opponent! However, this is entirely dependent upon wounding, which while consistent on a specific person (as per opponent's armour, and your weapon stats), is still subject to RNG when it comes to afflictions. This is alleviated slightly by the use of maneuvers, but they only eliminate the other afflictions that you might get, so while you're able to pinpoint specific afflictions, it doesn't really raise the base chance of getting that affliction. Once we finally go through this process, it repeats again, except you have to take your opponent's ever-moving stance and parry into account, and thus you have to move your attacks around to thwart that (all the while, they're curing what deepwounding you ARE able to pile on).
All of this, compounded by the fact that we have little to no hindering until we get at least medium wounds on our opponent, and that the entire time our opponents are actively (and oftentimes passively) hindering us makes playing warrior an absolute bitch.
So yeah, just putting this out there. Apologies for any typos, grammar issues, or potential misinformation (there are one or two things that MIGHT be wrong, but I don't believe they are).
Unknown2010-07-23 13:03:40
You forgot magical shields (which everyone deals with) and dodging (Acrobatics). The RNG is the warrior's biggest enemy in any fight. Would be great to even just do away with that natural miss chance, leaving it up to stats entirely.
Neos2010-07-23 20:16:19
QUOTE (Malarious @ Jul 22 2010, 05:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Dodging skills were being removed from Lusty for good reason, they are really irritating and are basically a way to fill in a lack of dmp. All skills except acrobatics lost their dodge, including the shrine power.
Foresight was a mistake and will be fixed shortly I hope as it is a no cost IMPROVED dodge skill that can dodge anything with no counter. I am actively awaiting its removal/adjustment.
Telepathy, and indeed mages in general, already have heavy resistance. You assume every skillset needs dmp, but its based mainly on the primary. You have psiarmour and biofeedback in telepathy, but you already have elementshield, stoneskin, and a number of other skills for defense. I understand you want telepathy to be "more defensive" but as psionics skills are both ungodly in terms of offensive power I do not see them as needing free bonuss to resistance. TK does get forcefield but that both locks a channel, enables burnout, and makes it easier to get them because you could also debate them before finishing off ego.
Telepathy oddly enough is more of the offense aimed skill, its the hexes of the psionics world while telekinetics is astrology (offense with some other things thrown in). The exact potential is being adjusted in a current report, but the idea remains the same.
Foresight was a mistake and will be fixed shortly I hope as it is a no cost IMPROVED dodge skill that can dodge anything with no counter. I am actively awaiting its removal/adjustment.
Telepathy, and indeed mages in general, already have heavy resistance. You assume every skillset needs dmp, but its based mainly on the primary. You have psiarmour and biofeedback in telepathy, but you already have elementshield, stoneskin, and a number of other skills for defense. I understand you want telepathy to be "more defensive" but as psionics skills are both ungodly in terms of offensive power I do not see them as needing free bonuss to resistance. TK does get forcefield but that both locks a channel, enables burnout, and makes it easier to get them because you could also debate them before finishing off ego.
Telepathy oddly enough is more of the offense aimed skill, its the hexes of the psionics world while telekinetics is astrology (offense with some other things thrown in). The exact potential is being adjusted in a current report, but the idea remains the same.
Using biofeedback and psiarmour locks channels removing any offense from Telepathy.
No other defenses that provide physical damge reduction that I can think of.
I only ask for one time defense similar to timeslip in cosmic. Since Kante listed the major problems for warriors, I threw out wanting the higher miss chance. Can't think up any alternatives.
QUOTE (Janalon @ Jul 23 2010, 12:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd love to see some more psymet friendly defenses in the psionics skillset as well; especially considering, in my calculation, 5 of the 21 psionics skills are applicable to monks. I have no issue with moving mindfield down into psionics if it opened up the possibility monks could then acquire a new psymet skill. Note: this is purely self-serving, and has no basis in game balance.
Remember, Mindbar already reduces psychic DMP by 20%. Though, I think very few TP/TK skills dish out pure psychic damage. In fact, I think mindblast and psi blade are the only psychic damaging skills. In this case, Mindfield will mostly only provide you with an aethersight-like ability. It's not the defensive ability you imagine it to be.
I'd also love to have the mindlink ability, but this seems very tied into the true ability of the TP... and perhaps not really suited for pions en large. Though, I'd agree that offering it to all psionicists would widen it's use beyond 1 or 2 players.
Remember, Mindbar already reduces psychic DMP by 20%. Though, I think very few TP/TK skills dish out pure psychic damage. In fact, I think mindblast and psi blade are the only psychic damaging skills. In this case, Mindfield will mostly only provide you with an aethersight-like ability. It's not the defensive ability you imagine it to be.
I'd also love to have the mindlink ability, but this seems very tied into the true ability of the TP... and perhaps not really suited for pions en large. Though, I'd agree that offering it to all psionicists would widen it's use beyond 1 or 2 players.
Yes only two skills I cna think of actually deal psychic damage, and there are five other classes in the game. Besides psiblade and mindbar all other TP attacks are afflictions. TK is all physical I believe.
QUOTE (Kio @ Jul 23 2010, 12:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
At first, I thought it was pretty lousy that I could never find someone to Mindlink with. However, all it does is enable communication across planes (and an xp boost when made into a squad, which isn't a big deal to me).
Allowing non-telepaths to join a Mindlink seems a little dangerous. The only reason I join a Mindlink (and there are only two other telepaths in the guild that I know of), is because of Hivemind. Giving Hivemind to anyone but a Telepath is a horrible idea (not sure if it's been brought up, just got off work and I can't remember two seconds ago). Just linking with one other person, I get about a 400 point ego boost. It's nice, but not necessary or deal-breaking.
The only reasons I'm jealous of Telekinetics are Forcefield (which would make bashing MUCH easier), and hindering. Telepaths have horrid hindering. It seems like it's there on paper, but it's way more difficult than just trip/break left leg/break right leg/gigglefit.
Anywho, I'm still quite pleased with Telepathy. It's fun, it's flavorful, and it's a challenge.
Allowing non-telepaths to join a Mindlink seems a little dangerous. The only reason I join a Mindlink (and there are only two other telepaths in the guild that I know of), is because of Hivemind. Giving Hivemind to anyone but a Telepath is a horrible idea (not sure if it's been brought up, just got off work and I can't remember two seconds ago). Just linking with one other person, I get about a 400 point ego boost. It's nice, but not necessary or deal-breaking.
The only reasons I'm jealous of Telekinetics are Forcefield (which would make bashing MUCH easier), and hindering. Telepaths have horrid hindering. It seems like it's there on paper, but it's way more difficult than just trip/break left leg/break right leg/gigglefit.
Anywho, I'm still quite pleased with Telepathy. It's fun, it's flavorful, and it's a challenge.
As I said earlier, I'd like to see the ability to add in non-Telepaths with either a reduced boost, if a non-Telepath psion, or no boost for non-psions. There are two other Telepaths in the Aquamancers that I can think of but it's rare for all three of us to be around at the same time. There are way more TK users in the guild than TP users.
I honestly love Telepathy, if I didn't I would have gone TK instead.
QUOTE (Esano @ Jul 23 2010, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hivemind is 3% per telepath, starting at 2 telepaths, including yourself. You need the Hivemind skill to get the bonus, but not to contribute. So a two-telepath mindlink is a 6% bonus, a three-telepath mindlink is a 9% bonus, etc.
I've done the math and a twelve person mindlink grants a 36% bonus to ego, but because there are barely any TP users around I don't think it would be possible to get to that.
After going over things there are 11 defensive skills available to TK mages, not available to any other class, then there are 10 for TP mages, and if you remove the two that require locked channels then remove two for TP, and three for TK including forcefield.
Also not including defenses provided by the specs.
Janalon2010-07-23 20:45:37
Heya AquaNeos,
I can appreciate your idea-smithing and tenaciousness... No doubt your passion to write on this topic reflects the love of the game and your perspective to take something you love and make it even better. As a suggestion for positive feedback, I would suggest you consider a few methods to develop your argument.
First, you might try to use game-based evidence to demonstrate how certain skills do not work as intended. Not that they are outright broken and can be addressed through submitting a bug report, but need to be placed through an envoy process to adjust the mechanics so it can work as intended. Your post doesn't make any mention of underperforming TP skills which need tweaking.
Secondly, you might compare all three tertiaries to highlight how a lack of skill causes a game imbalance. Remember, equal does not mean fair and fair does not mean equal. So, you might not be able to make a firm argument that one skillset offers better DMP (i.e. psymet) given another skillset gives far superior offensive (i.e. TP). Not all skillsets need to give equal defenses for example, otherwise everything would be the same.
Rather than say:
I'd prefer to see you identify what those defensive skills are, how they stack and compare against one another. Then analyze and state your case. Presenting facts is so much more convincing than presenting speculation and personal opinion. Remember the cliche' "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it."
Prepare to be disproven. Don't fret, it helps you learn many aspects of the game. Based on my own experience, you'll probably make claims on misinformation and a limited perspective of the game. Discussion helps to hammer out your ideas. As one final bit of advice, I suggest you to read the Envoy reports and openly speak with your Envoy about your ideas. They can also provide feedback on your ideas and take them through Envoy if warranted.
I can appreciate your idea-smithing and tenaciousness... No doubt your passion to write on this topic reflects the love of the game and your perspective to take something you love and make it even better. As a suggestion for positive feedback, I would suggest you consider a few methods to develop your argument.
First, you might try to use game-based evidence to demonstrate how certain skills do not work as intended. Not that they are outright broken and can be addressed through submitting a bug report, but need to be placed through an envoy process to adjust the mechanics so it can work as intended. Your post doesn't make any mention of underperforming TP skills which need tweaking.
Secondly, you might compare all three tertiaries to highlight how a lack of skill causes a game imbalance. Remember, equal does not mean fair and fair does not mean equal. So, you might not be able to make a firm argument that one skillset offers better DMP (i.e. psymet) given another skillset gives far superior offensive (i.e. TP). Not all skillsets need to give equal defenses for example, otherwise everything would be the same.
Rather than say:
QUOTE (AquaNeos @ Jul 23 2010, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
After going over things there are 11 defensive skills available to TK mages, not available to any other class, then there are 10 for TP mages, and if you remove the two that require locked channels then remove two for TP, and three for TK including forcefield. Also not including defenses provided by the specs.
I'd prefer to see you identify what those defensive skills are, how they stack and compare against one another. Then analyze and state your case. Presenting facts is so much more convincing than presenting speculation and personal opinion. Remember the cliche' "If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it."
Prepare to be disproven. Don't fret, it helps you learn many aspects of the game. Based on my own experience, you'll probably make claims on misinformation and a limited perspective of the game. Discussion helps to hammer out your ideas. As one final bit of advice, I suggest you to read the Envoy reports and openly speak with your Envoy about your ideas. They can also provide feedback on your ideas and take them through Envoy if warranted.
