Not if you are off-balance. Gust can fail with badluck on you. The fall tarot + tentacles + Carcer + paradigmatic movement hindering ability can hinder just walking out.

You wouldn't just walk out with all the stuff that an Illuminati does on walking. That was kinda the point of this line of conversation. Don't walk away from an Illuminati, because that's how they mess you up good.

Tumble is still an option. You may even have time to try gust and tumble away, depending on how messed up you are independently of that whole setup...which you probably aren't, since most Paradigmatics effects don't last long.

So yeah, you're right, there's more to it than I saw at first perusal, and it makes soulless at least semi-viable in an ideal situation. It's not as effective as inqui + soulless, but not everything has to be. I think it's an ideal kind of balance: the good combatants pressure the good combatants into doing very well, the mediocre combatants stack stuff up and fail. No guaranteed win path 1v1. Looks good!

It'll be great when someone tries to tumble against an Illu, the Illu can ecto, then hekoskeri might tick, if so, then the illu can just fling soulless for the win cause they'll be offbalance forever. For better results, go silver eyes, force tumble.

Not to mention the ent that passively afflicts with cleanse cures, heh.

P.S. A lot of typos are getting fixed, I'll change the relevant messages as soon as I find them out.

What.

I can usually sympathize with your Glom hatred, but what?

Glom has the best synergy and the most reliable way to fully hinder the crap out of everything a target does, in terms of group fights at least. A year long marathon of rapid fire mana kills and instas from being locked down in Pfifth and choke being the dominant deathsight fireworks gives ample evidence of this.

And its not glom hate at this point. It's just a statement of what happens as a practical measure.

The only thing to say "what" about is people complaining about skills that haven't even been used yet, when the very anticipated aspect of these skills that's spawning the complaints is, again practically, the same impact that choke/Pfifth has (and will then turn around and explain how balanced the latter is).

The other commentary is, that, while I will be the first to say that the old pyromancy had some aspects that needed reigning in, the special report was either ill-informed or very disingenuous. Post report aeromancy is far superior, and pyromancy is, as far as I can manage to test, very much lacking. Of the former? I've hedged my bets against what I feel is a failed envoy system with a significantly invested aeromancer.

I've not been dissapointed in the slightest.

Sounds like the Pyro envoy wasn't as involved in the special report for whatever reason to me.



But how about that Illuminati / Institute eh. Those rubies are like soulless too!

Seeing as how the Envoy wasn't active during the entire length of that special report and it -still- went through...yeah......

Should look into a better envoy then!

Edit: My point is that I don't think there was an admin conspiracy with a Heavily Invested Aeromancer Out To Get Pyros. The Pyro envoy just didn't take advantage of the report.

Well yeah, that was major fail. Major major fail. Of course, the fact that he wasn't replaced when a full revamp of the skillset was underway is irksome. So is the fact that it came through when (at the time) the only other envoy that could really speak on it and didn't want to see it curb-stomed into the ground was also temporarily away from the game.

Pyros should get a tack-on special fix with the illu/institute fix, just to pull them out of the gutter. Obviously, they were broken before, but now they're broken in the other direction. Leaving it trashed because the envoy up and disappeared means we wind up with crap like cantors. A skillset that nobody wants to touch because it was dragged through the coals.

Now knowing that envoys works fully like a lynch mob? Hopefully the new envoys (from both orgs) will be active and zealous enough to protect their skillsets from getting face stomped by liars enlightened self interest.

Said other Pyromancer envoy would've probably been completely biased in the report and refused to downgrade some of the stuff that really, REALLY needed to be downgraded.

Yeah, good luck with the lynch mob. I've made a thread on it too, so I am well aware of how things work!

Nothing to see here, move along

Re- Shu- I don't think it was an admin related anything. I think it was a series of failures regarding the envoy process, including not replacing one that dropped off the face of the game, as well as not appreciating that letting the remaining envoys lynch the skillset utterly is not an awesome idea.

Aliod killing me in 30 seconds by accident? That was broken as anything can be. But what was done to pyromancy in that report? Going too far in the other direction is just as bad. Pyros should get another shake, a tack on to another report, just to make them solid.

I mean, they don't even have to be as good as the new aeromancers, who are pretty great- herb cure stacking anyone? Heck, the liniment for burns has a 1 second balance or so? Herb cures are much easier to stack, and they get passive curing. When I decided to hedge my bets on a large investment on an alt, I think I made a pretty good call.

Though, maybe I should switch to TP from DW. Laying those motes is freaking annoying.

I don't oppose to Pyromancers getting buffs, but they're going to need a level-minded envoy who doesn't want to buff them back to the way they were and I'm having trouble thinking of anyone in that guild capable of being their Envoy with a level head.

Edit: No offense to anyone in the Pyro's, of course.

I fully expect that there will be some needed changes to skills. I can think of at least one combo that is a game breaker right off the top of my head. I hope though that overzealous envoys give a chance healing systems to be properly coded to handle the new skills and give a time of testing in actual combat situations before the "OMG CHOKETRUHEALLICHBADLUCK" screams start

Well. I don't see how you can defend 30 seconds of uncurable ectoplasm.

Edit: I have reserved judgment on the Spix for now until I see it in groups.

For some reason you seem to be comparing something that requires multiple people to accomplish with something that can be accomplished with one person. The discussion of balance in a 1 on 1 fight is different from a discussion on balance in group fights. So saying something is overpowered in groups should not be used a counter something that is overpowered in a 1 on 1 fight.

That's just it though Greg, they already have! And you haven't even used them yet. O.o

I mean, remember when para/aeonics came out, and everyone was like, "sucks to be gaudi" until we actually used the damn thing? That's a two way road.


Geb- Actually, two people doing it isn't that big an obstacle in the context of groups. If anything, having two people lay down one skill each is much easier to accomplish than one person having to lay down three/four effects to get a similar outcome. If we only ever draw the line at 1v1 analysis, we're effectively trying to build a skyscraper built by a slew of different architects, none of whom have decided what the end result will look like.

The same way as you can defend 1 cure/action a second.

Who said it sucks to be Gaud when they came out?