Wait, so the diamond sphere accepts fae?

DUN DUN DUN....

Erion Faeslayer 2.0: "BUT IT'S FOR SCIENCE!"

The problems that I have with Harmonics mechanics and balance wise are the following:

1. Harmonics Stacking- The skill-set can be pretty overpowered in group combat, considering how the abilities work on all allies/enemies. Granted the cycle time on those I have tested so far seems to be 15 seconds, still the ability to stack between harmonics users can be a bit much if there is no limit on that stacking. I will have to test more to see if I can find that limit, though so far the tests I have conducted with two harmonics users spining onyx against me shows that they do indeed stack.

2. Active-Passive effect Redundancies- There seems to be a bit of redundancy between some Active and Passive Harmonics abilities. One example is the Mendingstone (active) and Emerald (passive). Both heal the spinner and his/her allies of afflictions. Another example is the Malefactgem (active) and Onyx (passive). Both afflict the enemies with random afflictions from what seems to be (will have to test more to make sure of it) a shared list of possibles. Their redundancies also feed into my concern in number 1, since they all work on ally/enemy lists and such stack for/against entire groups.

So only two problems really. The first problem mentioned is overpowered at a magnitude based directly on on the number of Hallifax Guardians in the room if there is no limit to the stacking between their activated gems. The second problem is more of a mechanics peeve in that the redundancy between some active and passive abilities are not actually needed and can in fact be overpowered in the same manner mentioned in the statement about the first problem.

Emerald and Mendingstone do the same thing, but I fail to see how having two heals proc on you at different intervals is a bad thing?

Maybe we could have them do something completely different, like Malefactgem could do damage to the target in relation to how many afflictions/bleeding they have on them at the time from onyx. Mendingstone could absorb some afflictions at a low rate, before they even hit.

This seems to be pretty significant from what I've seen. I won't say that it's overpowered yet (don't have enough data) but I'd definitely watch it.

It is a balance problem, since it does not just proc on you but also all of your allies. The magnitude of the problem grows the more guardians with the abilities are in the room during a group fight.

I think what Geb is saying is that one Researcher is crap, more than one craps on you.

Ah, sorry. I wasn't merging your points. It seems very Collective-esque for the Institute to be stronger performing as a whole as opposed to solo in combat. Then again that's me justifying the skillset with RP not game mechanics.

I'm not really in a position to test the Harmonics skillset, but reading through the wiki, I think I have a basic idea of how it works.

Here's what i thought:

1. Limit the ally effects to people who are both within a certain range and resonating with each other. Either that, or just eliminate the stacking effect, whichever works.
2. Make use of the RL mechanics behind the skillsets name. Something like:
(starting with no active crystals)


To explain, certain crystals would have affinities to each other (this could be explicitly revealed somehow, or discovered through experimentation), where a high affinity makes the interference more constructive, and a lower (more negative) affinity makes the interference more destructive. To make it more intuitive (though the choice is pretty arbitrary), constructive interference would allow the use of better defensive skills (while dampening the offensive skills), while destructive would do the opposite.
This is a good reference for the less scientifically inclined forumer.

I think something like that would make harmonics a bit more interesting (i notice that Okin purposed something similar on the first page, hopefully he won't mind .)

Regarding stacking, can't the same argument can be said for wiccan entities? I think if these effects are demesne-like in power (i.e., this is like a portable demesne), then I would agree there would be a stacking issue. However, the harmonic effects aren't demesne-like in power and I felt that the stacking these gem powers wouldn't be a game changer. I may change my mind later and make them more like music tasks, but as of now, I'd like to see Harmonics more in action. For those who think Harmonics is weak 1-1, I still believe it is stronger than people realize and would like to give it more time to see what players can do (see my previous response to Geb in another thread).

Regarding redundancies, that's certainly something we can look at. However, I would say there's a big difference between Mendingstone and Emerald being that Mendingstone is a power skill that does an immediate, significant refresh of caster and allies as well as healing ailments, while Emerald a slow cure task. Malefactgem and Onyx do share one ailment (paralysis) but no others-maybe this is an issue but I don't think it's a huge redundancy. Again, Malefactgem is an immediate spell whereas Onyx is a slow task.

Anyway, as I said, I'd like to see more real combat action before coming to any conclusions, but these are both excellent points (especially stacking which truth be told I had waffled over) and something we will definitely be monitoring.

I really want waffles now.

Dude! I was thinking the same thing!

Heh, it really is a waste of gems that you have separate gems for mana drain, ego drain, mana regen, and ego regen, when all of these can be combined into 1 or 2 gems. In fact, the guardian doesn't even have a use for mana/ego drain and neither does each drain do enough to truly matter.

I agree with Geb that the redundancies with passive gems vs. active gems is also a pretty big deal, and changing the afflictions of the active gems to help the guardians score their instakill would be an improvement.

That's the spirit! I'd even go a step further and say, "Who cares if anyone ever made it Canon?" There is absolutely nothing stopping the Institute from writing a treatise on Diamond and explaining that it manifests shields because it is a mechanism by which a physical representation is manifested of a purely logical eidolon. All the gems could work that way - miniature Platonic demiurges that forge real copies of purely ideal structures. Tiny bridges between noumen and phenomen. Perhaps this has ramifications for the Continuum itself - it has no life in it because it is a conduit to bring potentiality into actuality as opposed to being one or the other.

Or, it could be something completely different. You could probably come up with something way better and more cogent. I did that in three minutes.

Point being, it doesn't matter if any AB files change or if the skills are called something different or anything like that. You guys control the guild's mythos and RP. If the admin come in and bulldoze what you've built away for something else, I guess you can fight that fight if it becomes necessary, but it really sounds to me like Estarra is saying, "Make of it what you want," and you totally should.

Going back over this thread a few times, I think I'm getting a bit more clearly what the complaint is, and there are some good ideas that have been shared, but honestly, a lot of this thread sounds something like, "We can't RP thoughtful characters unless we have a PONDER emote."

Wiccan ents don't hit everyone in the room; gems do. I agree with Geb that gem stacking is going to be a huge problem if you don't do something about it. The sooner you fix it the better.

Agree with Aloysha and Geb and also the point about the Stones/Gems. They make Harmonics feel too... mystical-y instead of science-y. I like having polyhedrons in their place.

Harmonics on its own is a cool and useful skillset. But after giving it more thought I honestly thought there'd be more to it. It's quite a passive skill that doesn't require too much planning, kind of like the music specializations. Hallifax, the Institute and the Continuum are such intriguing and rich places, and Harmonics feels a bit too simple for where it is.

Flavourwise, take Aloysha's and similar suggestions and I think that would be great. The current attack/effect messages aren't anything to write home about either.

Oh, and a wand? It's just kind of... anticlimatic. I feel like a wizard with my wand and the colourful orbs floating around me.

If there's a possibility for Harmonics to be revised (flavourwise) despite it being released already, I would be willing to work on coming up with concrete suggestions!

I see no real issue with making it Canon so long as it makes sense and is readily available.

I completely disagree that the Institute should be less mystical. We learn Rituals and Cosmic, which are both part of the Arcana and Mysticism pools. Temporal science could even be considered a type of "magic".

This is a fantasy game, not Battlestar Galactica.

Oh dear god, this.