uh what?

I think you lost the conversation somewhere long ago.

Taking this as your stock "That's a good point but I won't admit it and try to sound condescending instead and hope they buy it" it.

No, I seriously think you lost the conversation somewhere. You don't have a good point because your point has nothing to do with anything I have discussed with Shuyin about badluck and Greywhispers.

I don't know enough about guardian combat to make a list like that, but I'm pretty sure someone more knowledgable would be able to make a list for each guardian guild that shows the other guardians needing to use as much power. Basically, all guardian combat is power intensive. Has been that way ever since I've started playing.

I mean, I can pull that report that puts a power cost on badluck if you think I shouldn't be changing Paradigmatics!

If you think that makes you a good envoy, I'm not going to stop you.

Right, I am going to take this as your stock "I don't have a clue what's going on or being discussed but I will make irrelevant comments to try and look cool anyways."

Okay, cool. Keep up the good work.

You should probably go back and read this entire thread before you make any more posts, since you apparently have no clue what is going on.

?

Just to clarify, I never once asked things to be made easier by envoying a pardigmatics report. I asked that the focus of power be shifted to where it should be, on the skill it should be on, without making things harder for the Illuminati, especially for those that are power intensive to begin with.. I.E. Balancing the skill/starting the procedure of balancing the skillset without just being all "omg envoy war must nerf skills for the sake of nerfing skills"

Pretty sure, Xenthos and Shuyin at least understood that.

TemporaryInsanity stacks so well due to BadLuck. When you have an ability that effectively ticks on Focus (especially against affliction classes) and knocks someone off balance, it's an effective combination both for a Templar and an Illuminati.

Aeonics suffers from this lack of synergy with TimeWarps since there really isn't an effective way for a Researcher/Sentinel to stack balance/eq affs like a Gaudi can stack focus affs to try to trip BadLuck.

I can understand the purpose of the Aeonics report, and that's just giving more synergy to the skillset on a whole. I don't feel this is a bad thing. I can get behind the quicksilver solution.

The brass tacks: Paradigmatics is better than Aeonics. The reason this comparison needs to made is because Illuminati have the exact same kill method as Researchers (stack warp/insanity or keep target in room, use instakill).

So, with that in mind, we need to evaluate WHY Paradigmatics is better than Aeonics. Brace for tl;dr.

Tempinsanity is better than timewarp. Completely discounting the actual effect of the two (for the benefit of not getting sidetracked), both afflictions have cure priority. This basically means you can't cure horehound affs until you've no timewarp, and you can't cure pennyroyal affs until you've no insanity. Researchers can't do horehound affs. Illuminati CAN do pennyroyal affs. Stupidity is a pennyroyal aff. You can't cure jinx until you've cured said mental affs, either. Stupidity, temporaryinsanity and Jinx have the same effect as BadLuck. Command rate failure. That 2% fail rate you keep citing seems meagre, until you realize that it's quite possible to cause 99% command fail rate as an Illuminati hexen. Even MORE ironically, if you go with Tarot instead of Hexes so you can flick Aeon, you actually make better use of Aeon than the guilds with the skillset called AEONICS, because command failure and aeon are a reliable bread-and-butter combat staple.

With Aeonics, there's no synergy at all. We've got 2 passives that cause mental affs (one of them also causes timewarp), but they're 3p each and none of the affs given by said passives are difficult to cure (unless you're in aeon, in which case there's no timewarp building up because you can't aeon and timewarp at the same time). Building timewarp to instakill levels is somewhere between unrealistic and impossible. The most feasible way to do it would be to lay on passive warp effects, and spam aeon the entire fight until it builds up, which you can tell just by theorycraft, is a sloppy way to try to win. The other way to build enough timewarp is using Shatterplex, which leads into the next problem: outside of Illumination/Timequake, the options are Soulless and Meteor. Illuminati can keep people in a room much better than Researchers can, since they've an extra carcer (as well as sludgeworm, actually) and command fail rate applies to movement. Soulless and Meteor are still easier than getting Timequake, by all means, but Researchers kind of suck keeping people still. It's not impossible to Shatterplex someone, but it's damn difficult to the point of it being easier to just go with Meteor or Soulless.

So, with all of this in mind, Aeonics clearly needs a buff if Timequake is anything to go by. Either we special report it (which the admin have said is not likely to happen), or we incrementally change Aeonics via normal envoy reports until it's actually possible to kill someone in a fight with Timequake (or by extension we can Soulless/Meteor effectively). If you've got suggestions that leave timewarp as is but change/adds other skills, I'm all ears. I was under the impression that by simply making timewarp by itself strong enough to be as annoying in combat as Badluck, we'd have a partial fix.

Oh, and this report wasn't really my idea, initially. I originally wanted a skill to diagnose timewarp/insanity on targets, until I detected an impending bitchfest about THAT idea, too. So I suggested this change instead.

I personally think there's something wrong with a powerless and uncurable version of Jinx that takes balance on failed action proc. But maybe that's just me.

Aeonics is leaps and bounds defensively superior to Paradigmatics. No one in his right mind is going to let you have Paradigmatics-style offense. You should be staring long and hard at a comparable defensive skill, like Moon, unless you want to start seeing illumination kills being run by people behind resistance from almost every affliction in the game.

Also, if you look at Aeonics and can't figure how to stick afflictions, well, you might have a problem.

Eh, curable aeon is a lot easier to deal with if you know what you're doing. Plus, it fades out on its own! Now, UNCURABLE aeon on the other hand...

Oh, right, I forgot that was the party line.

Buffing Aeonics is fine, since Night is allowed to exist. Nerf choke.

Why not? It worked for Aero/Pyro. Now Aero has a better offense than pyro, while retaining its defensive advantages!

Just wash, rinse, and repeat for institute/illuminati.

And that is why there is an envoy report to shift the power costs around in Paradigmatics (more to the point, from Greywhisper to Badluck). There's no reason to argue about the cost of badluck now when the constant drone of complaints is already being addressed.



Temporaryinsanity is cured AFTER pennyroyal afflictions. I am under the impression you think this because timewarp is cured before other horehound stuff, and I'd say that's possibly a bug..

Also, can we please stop this 99% fail rate BS? It is as close to 99% as it is to 0% when the full gamut is set up on you and I completely willing to go in to an arena to demonstrate that. Don't use sensationalist numbers and phrasing to make a skillset seem more powerful than it is - we get enough of that in other envoy reports and it's probably the reason so many things go undone or unfixed.