Well, you're mostly agreeing with me.

I'm for the 70/70 change, my entire point is that the 'cost' of having to possess the tradeskill actively for the additional effect does not justify trans tattoos having a strength beyond splendors. I also am the one who compared the trans tattoo ability to herbs and poisons bonuses, because I do feel that they are more related in this manner.

The part where we disagree (apparently) is that I do not feel the cost is very significant these days, especially when compared to the old days, given the many options available to mitigate that cost.

I honestly don't mind the trans tattoo thing being turned into an item that Monks can use without the tradeskill, if such was desired (as stated before). I mind the current setup being used as justification for tattoos being as powerful as they are, because they should not be.

(Also, when have you known me to shy from a lively debate on envoys? )

70/70 would be worse than splendours. I have 75/57 right now, and even though 70/70 would total 140 armour versus my 132 armour, very few people have blunt anyway. The arguments against 78/78 are nothing more than reactions to numbers. No one has gone out and collected data or actually demonstrated the "ridiculousness".

@Xenthos: It's not a pain to keep track of decaying things. I have triggers and timers which give me warnings, and an alias to store things. And even if I didn't have splendours or any other trans trade item, I'd still do this. I've had the same vials for just as long, same clothing, same scrolls, same pipes, etc.

None of your reasoning justifies tattooing being equivalent or weaker to tailoring. You have yet to demonstrate that there is -no cost- difference between tailoring and tattooing.

And even with 50% loss, you go up to 375cr. Doesn't change the fact that you can get 10 tradeskills for 2500cr. You can get -more- if you forget skills outright.

To the ongoing discussion (and hopefully this will put it at an end), as has been said several times, TattooMaster should come in around splendour level defenses with full tattoos. Note that when Tattoos were being designed, the Envoys were asked what splendours were, in a min-max stat-er approach, the administration was told 75/75. I don't really believe 3 points cutting/blunt makes that much of a difference that it requires emergency attention to be changed. I can see the arguments for lower (70/70), but that's not my decision to make, at the end of the day.

If (preferably a monk) envoy(s) feel 78/78 is too much, they're free to envoy it with a few suggestions of different stat sets and as to why they feel it's too much. I don't really buy any argument about splendours vs tattoos and tradeskill dormant vs active - personally, I think you should only get splendour stats if you have tailoring active, your magic tome should only work with bookbinding active, and such forth.

Lucky for you all, I suppose.

A monk justifying tattoos aren't OP for monks? I've seen it all! esp. the typical Sahmiam-style "irrelevant, irrelevant, nothing left" style. These aren't simple issues or questions, though!

Actually, I'm going to go a step further and say if you want to discuss it further, you have an envoy channel/board for it. Certainly, at the least, it no longer belongs in this thread.

An argument I promise to carry out elsewhere was once here. Eventru demands 'last word'.

Edit: I see that Eventru has ninja'd me.

What does it mean when in the honors of someone it says, "He/She has triumphed 1 time in the combat rankings."?

The fairly superfluous combat rankings system. You get an honours line for being #1 at the end of the year, and it resets each year, I think.

I thought it was RL month.

Does enchantedtattoos work with scrolls?

how do we activate the clovers again?

pluck leaf from clover

With the advent of Tattoos, are fire/lightning damage mods still a good choice for knight weapons? I feel like a lot of people will have upped fire resistance, not sure what to buy.

What would be the best way to get information from other organizations that most people take for granted, but some of us (Halli/Gaudi) don't know, without starting a potential flame war? I'm not talking about the sort of stuff in that recent thread about guard placement type things. I need some numbers to make comparisons with, but I don't want to start a thread that people will use to grandstand their opinions. I could send PMs to people, but I don't necessarily know the right people to ask. Not really a simple question, but again, I didn't want to start a whole thread for this.

Why not just ask here instead of beating around the bush.

Viynain knows everything, so he'd be a good resource. Other than that, probably contact people in other orgs who have shown themselves to be generally supportive of the betterment of the game environment and sharing knowledge. Talan and Viynain for Glom probably, and maybe Lendren for Seren. Not sure who else, without knowing exactly what you're looking for.

Hardly everything. I'm just nosy.

But both Arel and Shuyin are right - just ask. I personally thought that thread about guard placement was good and I don't mind jumping in on those general info sessions if I can contribute. If I can't contribute, there's a good chance I'd know someone who you can poke for specifics anyway.

I'd like to think that these forums are receptive for people who honestly don't know things, so toss up your thoughts and give it a go. If things don't work out, PM's are always accepted.

Well, as I said, it's not like that thread. I would like to gather information for a bug report, and the admins don't like us talking about that sort of thing on the forums. So I'm very reluctant to be out in the open about it. I don't want to get shot down because I didn't go about it the right way. I also don't want to start a thread about it because I don't need people's opinions, I just need hard facts. I wrote up a questionnaire, and if it still seems like good idea tomorrow, I'll message a few people ingame about filling it out.

Question. If I get a truefavour and it raises my influence skill to Mythical when I'm normally Virt. And then I go and learn some influence to trans, when the favour goes away, will it reset back to the old level? Or will my lessons still count? Also, does the favour upgrade count towards the lessons I already have when I start learning with it on?

You will learn as much as you would have without the tf. The only thing favours mess up is asking mobs for your skill level. Everything else with learning the skill works perfectly normally (it will also stop learning at the point you'd have reached transcendent without the favour).