Maybe they like you. :/

Now I'm jealous. We can't be friends anymore.

people with stupid titles should be bandruid

Others have mentioned the almost incessant raiding (but maybe not explained what incessant means -- we don't mean every day or even every hour, we mean sometimes every couple of minutes, so you barely get back from one raid-destination before you're running to another). But that's only part of it. Other germane elements:

• When those raids come to fighting, Serenwilde pretty nearly always loses and gets ground to paste.
• If Serenwilde ever manages to win a clash, all we get for our trouble is the assurance that five minutes later we'll get raided by a bigger group, and ground to paste. This is devastating to morale. Hard to argue for bothering to come fight when that 5% chance of victory is pretty much guaranteed to just cause an even bigger and more damaging raid that we will lose. There've been times where, due to luck, coordination, and luck, we've driven off raiders and exulted in a hard-won, morale-boosting victory four times in a row, but they were always followed by another raid with so many demigods that we couldn't stand a chance, and we get pounded even harder for the audacity of having done what, ostensibly, they say we should be doing.
• The actual "raids" aren't really the worst part, though. For every true raid, there are a hundred (I am not exaggerating) times someone will come into our territory, run around and around, maybe attack something (a shrine, a pixie, a tree, a Lady, a level-30 player, whatever), but steadfastly refuse to actually fight anyone. When you catch up with them and they leave, they come in another entrance literally 15 seconds later. Rinse and repeat for 20 minutes straight. Sometimes for several hours straight. You might think this is some grand strategem to wear us down in preparation for an actual raid, but it almost never leads to anything else. It's simply an attack not on Serenwilde or even the characters in it but on the players.
• Fairly regularly, there are insipid acts of vandalism, like the recent spate of statue-creations, that serve no purpose but to force someone to spend hours (literally) cleaning something up, or that can't actually be cleaned up. This seems petty to complain about and it is; but it contributes to the overall feeling that when you log in, you will pretty much have zero expectation that you will have any control over what you're going to be doing until you log off.
• There's been a lot of stuff that tends to dispirit the lowbies and midbies, even those who aren't entering combat (for instance, the Hifarae conflict quest that dumps aggressive creatures right in the middle of our territory, causing kids ten seconds out of newbiehood to get killed just trying to deliver their weevils, often to never come back -- though to be fair you can cast some of the blame for that on the quest design, but there've been times when that bit of road also ends up being melded and camped by players who do the same thing).

For the last point, I'd like to note that the Hifarae quest is actually part of the Glom epic quest cycle, so you can't blame them for doing it for that.

The rest seem to be valid, though.

I did mention that you can blame the quest design, actually, but that sometimes players do it on their own, too.

I should probably have picked another example, even so.

I know, right? ;-; I didn't realise it would be modified into a thread and get 16 pages long overnight. Anyways.

@ Faymar way earlier in the thread: Uh, no...it's not a false sense of loyalty.. I think? When I first created Sadie, she firmly told all the Magites that asked her to go there, that she would only leave Serenwilde if people were at the point of kicking her out/really hating her. If I didn't like the Shofangi so much I would have no problem leaving. And I kind of like Serenwilde. It's the only org I've ever played Lusternia in consistently, whether it was two years ago when I first tried the game out, or now. Green trees are good for eyesight, y'know? Nothing lasts forever, just as the things there that make it fail now won't always be around.

About that charismatic person able to turn an org around sentence...it's nice and often true, but not always. You can't turn someone around who doesn't want to be turned. Just like no matter how many times I can get all excited and ask for participants in a war game to get to improve their defence, tell people simple instructions to not fail so bad, or bribe others with mountains of honeycakes to join the Shofangi, if they don't want to do it, it's not going to happen. (Although I suggested punishment for Serens like that to IMC and they immediately refused .__.)

Sorry Chalcedony >.> I was the cause of you being bullied. -guilty-


As nice as Gleip can be, he was less active than even Nejii for a long time (was pretty obvious seeing their vote weights). I'd much rather have a dormant alt that I can ask to get online and do stuff for me than someone dormant I can't contact.

Don't be. Everyone that knows us knows we're closer than honey and cakes. Or rats and pie, whatever you prefer.

Like I'd sit by and watch your head explode via deathsight without joining you.

I've always been in Serenwilde (except for maybe a month when I tried the Aquamancers, just to see how being a mage feels like). That's about one year and a half. Didn't even blink when I quit. No second thoughts when I payed 250k to get unenemied to the Illithoids.

As for waiting for things to get better... quite honestly, I think you're going to grow old and have grandchildren before it happens.

Basically it is the vicious cycle that is known to Lusternia. One commune/city dominates and bitch slaps either one or more of the others. Now that Glom is on top, they're taking it out on Serenwilde. There are some people (in my honest opinion) who make things a lot worse.

While yes, what is being done to Serenwilde is horrible and needs to lessen, it is nothing new. It is not a Glom only thing. Every city/commune (except for Gaudi and Halli for obvious reasons) has done this, and been in the top. However a lot could be done that would make things not so worse that depends on the Players, aka self restraint. But who shows any of that?

Part of the hostility towards outsiders may be from the fact that when the other cities opened, a TON of people left for them, many in higher positions and most without any form of notice. Those same people often come and act like they are still part of the commune, hanging out at the Mother like they always have, going hunting with no one except their Seren buddies, pretending everything is the same. That actually ticks a lot of people off. And that's not just a Serenwilde phenomenon.

Regardless, it's finally reached the point where a few of us don't particularly care about other players' feelings anymore. In the past, we'd try to reason with you to not drive you away from Lusternia, but it's do or die time, and look where eggshelling has gotten us.

My impression is that Serenwilde lacks the cadre of experienced, somewhat organized and quickly-responsive (you might add: heavily artied demi) fighters that other orgs have.

When I attack someone on Faethorn during prime time, it often won't take 5 seconds (hell, if people are paying attention often not more than ONE second) before Glom has 3-4 demis there to help out.
When someone from Serenwilde gets attacked/dies in Faethorn, a resurgem might get organised quickly, but actual fighter response is usually scarce.

This is a problem in raids, too, although one additional issue there may be the lack of a respected leader most of the time.

Aside from underperforming in fighting, Serenwilde is not an unsuccessful org.


On a sidenote, I don't think Hallifax or Gaudiguch are in a better state in this respect, really. They just don't get raided as often and Gaudiguch has skills that have raiders think twice before trying.

I have high respect for Talan! I remember when she was a little Penumbra in Faethorn and I was like 'leave' and she was like 'lolno, make me, ! '.

I only posted this cause after getting home at 9pm and reading this monster of a thread I felt like I deserved to say something even though everything that was interesting was hours ago and I can't add to that without unnecessarily bringing it up again.

Wow. Just...wow.

Somewhere amidst this monstrosity someone suggested that conflict quests should result in NexusA draining power from NexusB. From past experiences, this is not good. Power is the highest form of an organization's success. Draining it from one to another generally results in epic e-peening or epic raging, depending on what side you're on.

Yes, the "you can kill your own orgmates as long as it's within territory" law certainly helps keep people from doing idiotic stuff. Of course, we've had our own share of drama from that law. Either way, it stayed, because benefit>risk.

-------

In my opinion, it's the number of highly-dedicated+vocal people in Glomdoring that ensures the overall success of the organization. You'd get regular reports on villages, culture, power and stuff on the news. CT is mainly used for reminders or graveyard discussions. Logs consist of reasonable favors ("communefavored X for: bringing in scholars" as opposed to "communefavored X for: I am Supreme.")

The serious, "we are awesome, even if we're not" atmosphere in Glomdoring ensures that we retain the disciplined and the dedicated, or change the ones who are not into players who care.

I think each organization has at least one highly-dedicated+vocal person, the one who keeps encouraging people. It's just that Glomdoring has such a high concentration of such people that it keeps on being as good as it is.

P.S. "We are awesome even if we are not": Shuyin's (sorry, you're the most frequent one to do this) regular line would be "We did awesome, guys, maybe next time we can do this instead." even if we lost in a Domoth fight or a village revolt. Morale is kept high, plus people learn from what went wrong and do better next time.

Try forming the cadre yourself? I've gotten the impression that you're too much of a lone wolf (usurp-claiming on your own?). All it takes is belting out a suggestion over CT to get some people moving.

That was Shaddus, talking about killing rockeaters draining it out of Serenwilde, so I don't think he was entirely serious.

No, that was in the vermin thread, not here. Let me find the post he's referring to...

This is probably the post in question, although there's a bit of a discussion around there.

(I didn't really try to solo-claim those two or three recent times.)
I'm not sure you can (or should even need to) train people's responsiveness to raids/conflicts. Interest in getting involved in fights is nothing you train, I think. I did that when I was a lowbie without any reflexes at all, and it hasn't ever changed.

I'm a relatively new player to Lusternia (relatively, compared to my experience in another IRE mud) so my comments and opinions are probably a little different from what's the norm here. I came to Lusternia with the specific interest of combat, PVP. I like to think I am a decently accomplished RPer, but RP wasn't on my mind when I created Lerad. This is my two-cents as a (purely?) PVP-motivated player.

I find raids in Lusternia to be very appealing, simply because they are what I call "PVP on demand". If I ever am feeling itchy, I can go to Etherwilde, kick a lady and go to Faethorn, wait for (some? any?) defenders/retaliators to come for me. It's like an OOA spar, when I want it, where I want it. I am a full-time student, so sometimes, I log in purely for some PVP to de-stress, and then log out. In the most extreme view, you can even accuse me of playing Lusternia like, say, Warcraft 3 or DotA or HoN or Red Alert 2. In for the (cheap?) thrill and action, and then out to go to bed for tomorrow's classes.

In Lendren's (and other's) view, I'm probably a griefer. Yet, even though I do what I do, even if I sometimes joke about being an epic "griefur" on OOC clans with my pals, I don't get enjoyment out of making another player quit. It's very easy, especially when you're truly being griefed, to point at the griefers and say, "It's all their fault. They're monsters out to do nothing my squeeze my nether regions!" But just to put it out here in clear terms, griefers don't actually orgasm over seeing someone cry IRL. What we orgasm over is the adrenaline rush of fighting.

I'm not claiming that constant raids don't wear down morale. Nor am I saying that self-restraint of pointless raids shouldn't be excercised. Insofar as they actually drive players away from the org, they should certainly be moderated. However, the defenders' attitude and mindset is important in making this work as well. Would limiting raids to a once-a-day event make SW a healthier org? Unlikely, and definitely not if they lose the raids each time. People don't like to lose, and if their reaction each time they lose is to do this:



Then nothing will change. I live in SE-Asia, so my 5pm-8pm (the times I get off school and have time for a little fun) are actually the periods where Glom gets raided by 1-3, or 3-5 demis, and the only defenders are me and a couple of fellow mediocre fighters. (Viynain or Alacardael are around sometimes, if we're lucky.) Needless to say, losing those raids are pretty much a given. There're quite a few times when I'm stewed up at the etherNexus while dead daughters are thrown at me, simply because moving anywhere but prime means death. Sometimes we get allies to repel them, sometimes we don't. Sometimes we go out and suicide once or twice, sometimes we don't. Sometimes they stay for hours, sometimes they get bored in just ten minutes.

Everytime, I come out feeling good, because those few of us that are around encourage each other and say things like, "Keeping alive is more important when we don't have a chance. Don't suicide unless neccesary!" or "Thanks for coming, even though there's no hope." or "That was a nice try, we got wiped, but it was fun." (Of course, watching novice defenders try to summon an enemy vernal into the nexus is an entertainment in itself, but that's irrelevant here.)

Maybe I'm just laidback because I'm a griefer, and have no real investments in Lerad (beyond the couple hundred bucks I spent on him as a student, of course) and have nothing to lose. Or maybe you can claim I'm making this up just to be contrary. But I firmly believe that if you don't have the right attitude when it comes to losing, you're the number one griefer that's making your own life hell. Even the best orgs lose, but if you only throw tantrums, then no amount of moderation from the griefers will improve the situation. (Remember, moderation from griefers means they are griefing themselves out of their own entertainment!)

I said it somewhere up there in my wall of text, and I'll say it again: I'm not claiming that constant raids don't wear down morale. Nor am I saying that self-restraint of pointless raids shouldn't be excercised. Insofar as they actually drive players away from the org, they should certainly be moderated. But it takes two hands to clap, and before you try to persecute your neighbours for being witches, look for the satanic altar in your own backyard.

Disclaimer: Even though I made this post talking like I'm some badass griefer, I'm actually using someone else's system and struggling with the concepts of Lusternian combat, so I'm really just a noob. Please keep forum RP to the forums and don't come looking for me IG. I like my exp levels where it is.

I think folks have identified a lot of how the raids and combat have lowered morale. One thing I didn't see mentioned in this thread was specifically choke. I know personally for myself as well as hearing it from several others, choke is a big reason some give up on being a combatant and one of the biggest roadblocks in becoming a capable combatant.

Obviously, we can go through the whole debate on how to properly deal with choke and flee when it is up. However, we are constantly dealing with an enemy who chokes and then are capable enough strategists to combine all skills available to them to keep us stuck in choke. Quite simply, choke really serves as the icing on the cake and just makes the situation that more annoying and dire.

/facepalm

The reason choke (probably) hasn't been mention is because everyone knows. You know how many times Choke has been argued and bitched and moaned about on these forums? A whole freaking ton. So truthfully, there's no reason to bring up choke again because its just going open a can of worms that won't be pretty.