Xenthos, you're the one that launched a 50 post campaign to, instead of that initial vernal ascendant restriction, implement this wonderous "Hey, that stuff you have now? Guess what, you get to pointlessly bash to maybe get most of it back, unless you're lucky enough to be an ascendant, in which case you can get more than others".

It was your choice, nay, your cause. How about the rest of us who didn't want this sort of change, didn't want to re-bash everything we already have? Can we be compensated for something that wasn't our choice? Being granted essense enough to purchase what we like would be a good start.

How's this. They give you back all the essence you bashed, since you didn't choose to lose ascendance. However, in addition, anyone who likes to can opt out of the whole change altogether, since they didn't choose it so much as it was jammed down our throats.

Actually, my cause was not in any way to force people to buy stuff that they had now. It was to not lose the things that people already had now, in fact! This is not the first time that things have gone in a different way from what was anticipated / asked for. And guess what? The whole idea of the DemiShop was not to buy what you had now, but instead to buy new and neat things. They decided to merge the two losses into one large overhaul. I do challenge you to go find somewhere that I stated it was a great idea for everyone to lose all of their stuff.

I am quite unhappy with them forcing people to lose their Ascendance. I am also not a fan of limiting it; it's one of those things that I feel is better as a goal that people can aspire to than a "never going to achieve it ever" kind of thing.

So, expanding that, I am not a fan of stripping out months of work "just because" someone somewhere said 1/3 and it's apparently being stuck to for no more reason than that.

So, actually, I have no issue with people "opting out" for precisely that reason. I don't see a problem with it; I doubt it will fly, but hey, why not?

The endgame process needed revising anyway, so why not fix the issues with demi while we're at it?

Our endgame changes aren't all that great or deep, so if the system can be revised to give people more incentive to participate in endgame, why not?

In fact, that doesn't even have anything to do with wanting our essence investment back. While we certainly can't get our time back, what we -can- get back is our essence.

I thought the general opinion was that, with the possible exception of divine fire, there weren't issues with demi?

I'm not even really sure myself, everyone keeps saying 'you need demi to compete' but actually haven't specified further than that. I'd count that as an issue as well, regardless.

Except for being bland and rather uninteresting, really; a lot of the neat stuff's been stripped out over the years. Right now it's mostly stats, refresh, DF, and size-changing which are all standard.

Zap occasionally.

That's what I see as the real issue with demi, personally, heh. Others might disagree, but there are so many and they all have the same handful of minor benefits, with the only one of any significant power being DF on the whole (size changing & the stats boost is significant for Warriors, but that's just one archetype).

I would agree that demi being rather bland is an issue too, nothing more mechanics-wise!

I always felt this way too. The only other thing that gets abused much is demi zap train, which would be easy enough to nerf otherwise (ie, static discharge latent in the air or whatever hooblaboo around you prevents other demigods from zapping you immediately for several seconds. Bam, suddenly it is RP only.)

Speaking of, why isn't divinefire dead yet? I'd rather every demi have aegis than divinefire.

And of course, there is the whole, knight offense being significantly interwoven with the stats, far more than other archetypes.

And Xenthos, I went scrouging around in the old Ascendance change threads,

here

and here.

You posted enough that, I'm just going to concede the point rather than spend a large chunk of my evening wading through them. But if anyone needs a refresher on the atmosphere of said threads, well, there you are.

Oh, and, let us not forget the old post count

I don't dispute that I posted a lot in them. I do dispute that I ever agreed that taking all kinds of things away was a good idea; adding, sure, removing, no. In fact, it was the topic of removing that made said post count so high.

I still want aegis.

I just wonder when are the rest of the changes going in? I personally saw no reason to strip Ascendants of the skill-set this far ahead of the actual revamp happening. Waiting until they were ready to place the rest of the changes in may have actually been better, since it would have also given them time to make sure there were no bugs in the essence refund code.

I'm guessing they needed to take down Ascendancy in order to recode it or something. Eventru said that the changes would go live in Juliary, which was 6 days ago (and will come again in 6 days). I'm getting antsy myself anticipating all the new sparklies...

Re when it's coming, ask the Celestines when exactly Juliary comes. It's basically my way of saying, 'It comes when it's done, and not a minute before.'

Ascendance had to be taken out because of some under-the-hood stuff that went in for the new endgame stuff (it'd have taken quite a while to change stuff so it could go in without screwing with old ascendance). And the essence refund was tested, I just didn't count characters (woops).

You know what would be awesome? Stealing Aardwolf's Remort/Tiering idea. Like, reach level 80+, go to the Seal of Beauty, remort, drop down to level 1 again and get some sort of bonus having to do with Beauty + a small XP penalty. Remort once for every Seal, and you can then Tier Up, drop back to level 1 and get some other bonus relating to going up a Tier. And then go through and Remort all the Seals again for additional small bonuses and working towards Tiering again.

This would be, obviously, an alternate route than Demi/Vernal/True Ascendant, for those who enjoy seeing their levels rise consistently.

Yeah, because we all love Aardwolf so much... (and, we all love losing our demigodness to become newbies again, too).

Have you seen Aardwolf's player count? They must be doing something right.

And just because you don't want to give up Demi doesn't mean everyone would be against it. I'd much prefer a system where I can experience bashing different areas and actually see the LEVEL UP!! message more often.

If I could bash to 80-90, and then drop back down to 1, getting something for it, I totally would. Why? Because we get new areas open up and I get to experience more of the game, rather than having to bash the same 2 areas for 90% of my playing career.

Plus, I said it would be an alternate, so you wouldn't have to give up your Demi.

Of course Aetherspace would need to be reigned in.. but that needs to happen anyway, really.

No thanks.

I don't care how fast I am/have grinded up to level 80, I don't want to drop back down. Even if I could make it back up faster. It would just be a little demoralizing...

Also, I bet there player count is high because they are older than lusternia by a good seven or so years. That's... older than lusternia, I think.

That actually sounds really nifty.