First bolded is what I was trying to imply, I guess it didn't come off too well.

Second bolded is true backwards and forwards. RPing in WoW is painful, and that's why I never did it.

I disagree with your disagreement. Show me a graphical MMO where it's nearly required for everyone to have a 'system' of triggers to even compete in any form of PvP. Sure, WoW arena is largely about avatar placement and LoS kiting, CC, whatever. That's all :censor: if you ask me, if the team can still be trumped by a counter-comp or a reigning comp like RMP. RMP > cleave > w/e. In IRE MUDs it's like: Good people > bad people. That's about it. And, I uh, don't see how depicting game mechanics has anything to do with PvP. I guess I should've been more specific, I think MUD PvP requires more adaptation, knowledge aggregation, time, money, skill, intelligence, and perseverance. In WoW, and other graphical games, it's all about gettin the phat lewtz til ur geered out n talkin :censor: sittin on ur srs merc glad bear. Of course, this statement is an ironic parallel to the woes of Achaea, and any other pay-for-perks system where the very few good > the artied/paid&perked > the rest in terms of who can kill who in combat.

That's still unclear but I think I've made my point. I hope I have .


Obligatory for the horde statement here, or whatever.

Yeah, I've actually made people ragequit (unwittingly, mind you) because I've outhealed them when I'm way less geared. Both other Resto Druids like myself. :x Apparently I'm driving away all the Droods in my guild. >.>

Gearscore != skill, and it's sad that a lot of players don't realize that. Thankfully though, my guild does, and I them for it.

This is where the difference between depth and complexity becomes important. Having to have a robot do a substantial chunk of the work for you doesn't mean that in practice the game is any deeper, it just means it's harder to get to grips with. You're entirely right about MUD PvP requiring lots of money and time, but that isn't a good thing either - the time isn't all spent practicing or otherwise engaged in learning or anything, it's just something you have to do to bash X mobs before you can play properly. Compare to Guild Wars PvP, which is much cheaper to get into in terms of money or time investment and yet much harder to play adequately because the emergent rules result in more meaningful choices.

The reason I bring up the way it's easier to depict stuff like telekinesis and fleshcrafting in MU*s is that there are things you can have in a text interface (that aren't necessarily robot-dependant) that you can't in a graphical game for exactly the same reason roleplaying is more practical. But there are also things you can have in a graphical medium that are very hard to convey in text, and some of them lead to more interesting gameplay as opposed to a more interesting immersive fantasy experience. GW specialises in the former, Lusternia specialises in the latter. I use GW because a lot of people just say "but WoW PVP is crap" and I have no basis on which I can refute that, but I did plenty of comp GW a while back.

I always found healing meters to be kind of a weird concept, almost like healers were feeling left out of the DPS meter races and wanted something to compete in. Maybe it's just because I'm a disc priest and half of what I do is absorption and mitigation instead of actually healing. =P

Honestly, I didn't pay attention to them for a long time, but people focus on them a lot apparently. I've actually been asked to do tank healing (as a tree o.O), and I've noticed that my healing on the meters goes down, but... that's because I'm only healing one target. My guild is more concerned with my HPS anyway rather than overall healing done. Which... I also don't understand. I make the bars go right a lot. Therefore, I'm good. It's just easier to measure how good I am compared to the other healers in the group with meters rather than "who is making the bars go right the most."

People like numbers, and like numbers that are high, and often forget to pay attention to what actually matters. /shrug

Even back before GS, people who were stuck up on on what their DPS from recount was as the sole determining factor of their worth annoyed the hell out of me. 'Yes you had the highest dps by 1k last attempt, but you and wiped us'

Gear score doesn't check whether you have the right gems and enchants, and grants you barely any score for even having them. People in full pvp gear with no gems and no enchants have tons more gs than me, but I thrash them on dps.

GS does nothing but show what kind of gear your wearing. They make the assumption that if you're in all whatever raid tier is current at that time, you're good and you know what you're doing. That however is not the truth. You can't tell how good a person is from their gear. While Recount does help in gauging whether or not they know how to play their class to push the big numbers you still have no way of knowing (until you raid with them) whether or not they've got good raid awarness.


And I personally think that if you have to have a huge set of triggers/aliases to fight, then there's something wrong with that. WoW PvP is all about being able to react, and do it quickly. While yea, you've got macros to help react even quicker, most people don't have a lot a macros. They use keybinds and place their abilities in specific spots for easier access.

I'm not very good at pvp in wow, and combat here I completely suck at. But I still play pvp every now and then (battlegrounds not arena.) and I honestly think I've got more of a chance at pvp in wow than I do in lusternia. Mostly because I can't read the texts that flying by to understand what I need to. With WoW I can see what's happening, I can make a judgement call a lot more easily and attempt to defend myself against the other person. I also shouldn't -need- a system/mods to do my job. And with wow I don't. In lusternia, it means death. I think I'd go with WoW PvP instead, its simplier and easier to get into imo.

Oh I lied, I'm not going to come back.. All this talk reminds me of how stupid the people that play WoW actually are, except maybe 0.05% of them.

My warrior tank has a high gs, I just learned to embrace the numbers, not judge other people, make sure to check if gear is enchanted properly if I am running a raid that needs it. That being said I don't require gs for anything other than ICC, and the ToC hard modes. One day I'll get a second stamina trinket, one day. Mostly I'm just glad that I am able to get into any group and know a thing or two about the fight to make it easier on everyone else so that we can complete more of it. I've helped 4 seperate groups down putricide for the first time. For some reason, a lot of people have problems with that fight.

That's the other issue, requiring the achievement to get into a normal mode 10 man. How are you supposed to get that? I've just resorted to making sure they know that the tank and healer who asked them to invite me will bail if I'm kicked. It's how I got my VoA, ToC, Ony, and Sartharion achieves finally. Now I'm just working on ICC.

LK 25 is hard.

Everybody's stupid. You're stupid. I'm stupid. Get over it .

Just like everything else in WoW, it's cake if you know what you are doing and you have 24 other people that also know what they are doing.

Yeah, but let's face it: World of Warcraft stupid is, on average, about 40-50 IQ points lower than Lusternia stupid.

I think it's petty to dwell on the "stupidity" of others, in general. I've seen some things in Lusternia (and other games) that made me shudder - and I'm no perfect girl. Also, IQ points are arbitrary and culturally specific, so you shouldn't try to base a solid argument on them. Let's just say, for the sake of time, that the overall behavior of World of Warcraft players is wholly immature, and a general turn-off for most mature audiences.

I, however, played WoW and loved the playerbase BECAUSE of how immature and "stupid" they were. At least they acted true to form, instead of attempting to uphold this facade of maturity and intelligence. I'll be the first to admit that I'm very immature, and of average intelligence, but at least they didn't try to intellectually challenge every person that spoke up on a channel or forum. And if someone did try to throw down, they got trolled to high hell for it. Quite an amazing self-governing system, that trolling.

I guess my point is that, in Lusternia's case, at least people try to appear intelligent and sophisticated. We may be putting on airs in many cases, but this is a fantasy world — pure escapism. We're all putting on airs the entire time we play! It's hard to imagine I'm talking to a sorcerer or a warrior-poet if they use "lol" and "wtf" while talking about Coca-Cola and the latest sports scores. People also write sophisticated books and theater plays in Lusternia, and design items with cool descriptions, and that's part of it, too.

In other words, for me it's a matter of "immersiveness" and believability.

I'm not really arguing with you or saying you're wrong per se. I think you're quite right, I'm just clarifying my position. I too have put up with many years of graphical MMORPG players, and I still had fun with the games themselves and my friends and guilds.

I think you do a great disservice to the game Felicia. Most people that play it are as smart and reasonable as a Lusternia player.


THE IDIOTS ARE JUST VERY LOUD AND ENTIRELY EFFECTIVE IN THEIR TROLLING.

This only applies if you try to RP. The vast majority of people in WoW don't, so holding them to standards of RP is rather unfair. I'm sure you can find those who do, but for most they play it very much like a game and not like a role, and I'm fine with that.

In other news, got into an ICC10 last night. It feel apart before we even pulled anything, but I am still happy with it. Granted, I had to link the achievement from my main, and in this case my main was actually my friend who said "Link my achievement, get in this alt run," but I feel no remorse about doing so when I can summarize most of the fights in ICC with one sentence.

This is where I have to plug my guild: Raiding is Hard, a Sargeras trolling guild. Any guild that posts Halion strats using Sesame street characters has my undying loyalty. Also, Dave is hilarious when he reams people out in vent, his Wisconsin accent amuses me to no end.

Oh, wow, Hacker really did set up CafePress shirts... *facepalm*