So, when did being told to shut the up become kind? I'm curious. Even if you tack on 'kindly', you're still telling us to shut up. There's no 'little group' - I can tolerate people differing, but I can't tolerate people who have no :censor:ing clue what is going on (i.e you) and still bring themselves and their opinions to the table thinking they matter. As for 'vile' drama, there's no vileness or drama about this issue. It's a legitimate authority and leadership question - how do we establish Gaudiguch as a power in the game when we can't even establish Gaudiguch as an actual, functional city?

Chill.

Bah, phone ate my last post.
tl;dr

unless gregori is being abusive and/or breaking rules, admin intervention needs to be kept to a dull roar.

what the admin REALLY need to do is shrub these people making alts to cause trouble for alt abuse and issue abuse.

It's great in theory, but we're getting issued every few days. The best example I can think of is when we had this one random newbie that issued everyone standing at the nexus, most of us trying to help, had been elsewhere at the beginning, had just signed on (poor Egran) or had stayed well out of the conversation!

That was some aggressive post-clearing.

If you have to delete 25% of a thread like that, the whole topic might need a time-out to let tempers cool. Especially since you are still doing it.

I've seen both sides of the story about the whole abusive thing, honestly I got to side with the city leaders on this one, we need some kind of order, sitting around smoking weed and drinking all the time isn't really productive and kind of leaves Gaudi in a ditch...

You're serious, aren't you... what the hell is wrong with people? I think in my 5 years playing I've issued somebody ONCE (who completely deserved it). This is one of the clearest examples I have ever seen of taking an IG issue and not taking a single step to resolve it ICly. Instead, they are going straight to the top of the OOC ladder?

It might take the Administration stepping up and saying "Issue abuse will not be tolerated".

I'm not sure how to treat this type of thing. People can be quite militantly defensive and react violently as hell when it's suggested that their maniacal use of cuddly emotes might not be ok. Considering how much that sparkly, superficial behavior seems in fitting with the atmosphere of Lusternia as a whole, I feel on shaky ground when it comes to acting with any authority.

My character is a bit of an idiot himself, and I really hope that doesn't bother people. I try to readily display that there's more to him than the racial traits. Someone once called me out on a particular speech habit, and I came out of it feeling bad and thinking, "I hope I didn't ruin his day by making him think that another idiot had invaded his guild."

A big, huge, glaring problem with "do as thou wilt" is that in the real world, if it's indulged in by a bunch of thirty or forty year old Englishmen in the early 20th century descending into hedonism and debauchery, their rebellion is heavily contrasted against the strictures of their repressive society, and their actions are heavily influenced by the fact that they are mature adults. On the internet, when these characters are often played by people in their mid-teens? Not so much.

Two other things worth noting: This is not the entirety of Gaudiguchian roleplay, it's the shallow surface veiling the insidious depths. And the counter to serious people driving away overly affectionate ones, is that overly affectionate people drive away serious ones as well. The people who give organisations their depth deserve a bit more consideration, I think, than the people who can exist anywhere, playing the same character.

However, I think that being rude and snide is not ideal. The goal isn't to drive people away, but to change their behavior a little to not be so silly. You can ruthlessly crush people down, but this is a gamble that might instead make them get defensive, and think "what a big meanie! *pouty-wout*", and not change their behavior at all.

Final point: While these problems are a bit annoying, the org isn't actually a festering quagmire, anyone considering making a character!

here is a new concept nobody except me has ever considered. /sarcasm.


if a ' newbie' is standing around issuing constantly and not actually playing, ITS A TROLLISH TRAP . just reply to the issue and ignore them. Also. . . .uh. . Aubrey dear. . . yov like to scream METAGAMING an awful lot, you arent doing that right now. . . are you?

Did you think I was kidding when I said I have been issued?

Here is another quote from an issue "He is the Hitler of Lusternia"

I didn't make this thread cause of some light hearted drama in Gaudiguch. I made this thread because this is becoming a serious issue and one where the leadership now feels their hands are tied in doing -anything- to keep the city organised and moving forward.

To those who think Kalin is ruining Gaudiguch:

I think he's doing the complete opposite and if you think he's 'ruining freedom'.. well, establishing laws, order, and a small bit of authority isn't a ruination of freedom. If you think it is, I think you need to sit back and think about if you want freedom, or a complete anarchy. Freedom in America still comes with a lot of laws and restrictions. I know America is an awfully subjective example, but let's be honest: it's as good as we'll get here.

Well, this thread is dead now. Good night!

oooh idea, make stricter guild laws, they can't argue with guild laws, it may be a part of gaudi but they are a seperate org, it would make perfect sense if templars were not allowed acting like idiots around the eternal flame or some such.

As someone who's worked for the betterment of Gaudi as an org, there are a lot of frustrations to be had at the moment.

We started off with an overblown stereotype of 1960's style pothead. Like most one dimensional gimicks, this burnt itself out in a few weeks when everyone got sick to death of it.

Then, broken-pyros were used by what came to be termed as "firemags", basically dooming Gaudi to be on the wrong end of the mega alliance.

Following this, pyros were balanced- by throwing them completely under the bus. For a skillset who's help file claims they are the most aggressive of mages, their offense is tame, gutted because it was based around a mechanic that, once effectively removed, left it toothless with no replacement. At this point, it needs a special report to make it properly viable again.

Then, we're constantly beset by alts who launch insane crusades of self destruction over and over. As soon as one burns out/is shut down, another pops up. I've even tried to help a few of them to deal with their situation in a more effective, IC manner, but inevitably, they all have fallen into this IC/OOC beserk attack based on a pretty grossly fictional account of a clique controlling gaudi.

You want to know the truth? When I joined, nobody did me any favours. When it became apparent I was working by butt off, all of a sudden, doors opened all over the place. A lot of these bizzare alts don't even try. They come out of the portal/long term retirement swinging for the benches without lifting a finger. Even this would be fun for me- it would be political chaos, fun RP stuff! Except it isn't IC. It's like this clique has declared a nonsensical OOC vendetta against something that doesn't exist in anywhere near the degree that they pretend it does.

I mean, I'm paranoid, but I like to at least think I'm justified in it.

So, the admin finally get wore down dealing with probably daily, unnecessary, drama issues. If I were an admin, no matter that every issue from the alt-vikings was shot down, it would start to look like children in the back seat fighting over who's finger is on what side of the "line". So this is how we deal with things now? This is a good use of admin time, when there's broken skills and reviews and good things to work on?

And now, while some of us have been working hard to:

-get the city organized
-make it attractive to good people
-ICly fix a political situation that's effectively stymied growth to the point that I've considered begging for some sort of admin relief, when good faith attempts just fall flat.

While we're working on that, now we'll get the label of "can't stop people from acting like idiots, who wants to go there".

Awesome.

So, to recap:

Pyromancers- trashed
Other skills- broken, trying to get basic fixes like performing your own dental surgery
Ability to Organize- hamstrung
Ability to effectively improve city- hamstrung months ago by people not even in the city any longer, and has proven irrepairable.

I've been meaning to try out a demesne class, which from my alt, have proven more fun for me. But when I hop here? Incentive to stay in Gaudiguch with the above being the case?

Rapidly dropping. Limited now to:

Tlarras, Egran, Mieari and a few others who I would miss terribly and wouldn't want to leave alone.
Kalikai being really awesome in her own way, and being under appreciated.

I doubt many of these people are going to change though. If they are like the Seren snugglers, that's all they are there for. They'll leave before changing. We had one person who left in a storm of immaturity when someone pointed out to her that wearing the title of Angel in a commune that hates cosmic beings might not be the best idea. She wanted her cuddly ridiculousness, and the moment someone tried to nudge her another way, she stormed off.

And honestly, is it worth holding on to them? There is a significant difference between harrassing someone because you don't like them and driving them off, and having someone leave because you "dared" to interfere with their, quite frankly, bad behavior.

EDIT:

No, but I had no idea that it was happening that frequently-- I thought it was an issue here an issue there, but every few days was WAY more than I thought people were capable of.

lemme in?

Yeah, pretty much these. It's getting tiring.

I can't even pay good people who would help the city grow stronger to join, and I have tried.

By we, I mean the leadership body of Gaudiguch. There's a few of us (I'm one of them) who aren't getting the issues, Kalin gets the large portion of them. However, there are those and I refuse to name them, that have taken to OOC means in order to do the same thing the issues do, harass and demoralize.

Anyways, to the topic at hand. My suggestion was that we rename the word "Law" to "Common Sense" or as Rodngar suggested "Guidelines", which are both less extreme ways of saying Please Don't Do This.

Lack of laws means, anyone can do anything they want. Up to and including killing citizens, which is considered a nono unless sanctioned by the guild (Templars have their potential security duke it out, Illuminati have something in regards to treasonous actions, Pyromancers are just sitting there going yo! *sets on fire*). The no killing people thing is something from the start of the city, which the admin controlled denizens have been quick to remind that hurting and maiming is fine, killing however is not!

I just feel, personally, the loose free and wild lifestyle that is being portrayed is something that Gaudiguch should be showing outsiders, but on the inside it should be the structured different societies that all the history and denizens in the city point towards. Our collegium is a perfect example, to the outside it's a very nice bar with very drunk patrons with a few quick words can be begged for a recommendation. When you've done that, you're introduced to the inside structure of Gaudiguch, the Order of the Secret Flame which.. if you want to know more, go find out sillies!

Anyways, the thread has probably grown a mile while I wrote this and hidden from a evil tiny moth but hey, these are my two cents.