I will now make an attempt to suggest changes to the new system as per suggestions made.

Currently, the list is such:

Demis - 50 weight
V Demis - 100 weight
Ascendants - 150 weight



My suggested changes (taken from others' too) are below:

Demis - 50 weight
V Demis - 75 weight
Ascendants - 100 weight



Rationale:

Demis:

Demis right now actually get less flavour utility under the new system compared to the old one. We have to fix this. On top of that, the number of abilities demis have access to is not representative of the 'coolness' of getting demigod. Essentially, what I've done is left the costs slightly halved, then vastly reduced the respective weights, making it possible to get all your stats to be beefy while leaving at least half of your possible weight to be used on cool custom things.

With these adjusted weights, it is possible for the demi to:

Have all their +stats back (should they desire) = 25
Get a custom entrance, shout, look, teleport = 8
Shrink or Expand, depending on class = 2
get a Custom zap = 15
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Total = 50 weight, 55 million essence

These abilities should be more than enough for the average noncom demi while at the same time making the costs not impossible to get. It gives the demi more flavour options while also preventing what makes them lame (divinefire).

On Divinefire:

-It is a ridiculous ability and should have been deleted, but since it wasn't, we will have to work with it. What I've done is increase its weight to 50 and increased its essence cost to 30 mil, making it so the average demigod will only be able to get that and ONLY that, nothing else. In addition, under this proposal, Vernal Demis (henceforth known as VD's, lol) and Ascendants will have their total weights reduced by 66% and 50%, respectively, severely hampering their powers and their ability to make crazy builds.

On shortening the gap between demis and ascendants:

-Geb and Akui have already mentioned that widening the gap between the Haves and Have Nots is a Bad Thing ™ for reasons being that 150 weight really is a lot, especially if you reduce the weights to help the regular demis out. While under the current system, a fully pimped out ascendant will never be as decked as an 'old' demi, they will still have access to some potentially crazy domothean powers, skewing the game's already precarious "balance". With that said, giving VD's and Ascendants 75/100 weight still makes them better than demis, but it also limits their options for crazy abilities.

On temp vs. permanent powers:

-There is no one in their right mind who would pay as much for a temporary power as they would for a permanent power. Therefore, in my mind, what should be done is that instead of temporary powers costing an equal amount of essence, temporary powers should weigh twice as much as their permanent form while either having a minimal cost in essence, no essence cost at all, or a minor drain in essence per weave. If we're tossing about arbitrary numbers, I feel a base 1 million for every power to last an ingame year, or about 80k essence per RL day per power for an ingame year should be more than fair, though personally, I prefer 0 essence cost.


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Major Edit: You know what, no one's really gotten a chance to (ab)use the new ascendant powers yet, so I'm gonna leave off discussion about them until the bugs are fixed (I can't use my free death powers heh). I'm gonna delete the ascendant-specific powers for now until then. I'll just make a new post in this thread once we get some experience with them.

Let me know what you think!

I couldn't comment on the Higher-Than-Demigod material, but I strongly agree with Shuyin's suggestions with regards Demigod.

I think DF, while it is powerful, is a tad high placed at 50. That means that's the only thing that Demis get. If there's a secondary DF that doesn't work in enemy territory and basically is an "oh crap I got jumped with no defs need to run" skill, I'd be good with only that one being lower on the list though. Without it, though, I'd rather see DF at the 30 it is now.

DF at 50 points is right where it should be. I mean it should have been removed, but it wasn't so making it "if you want to have a free restart in combat you forgo everything else" is a good alternative.

Put in a cost for temp powers and a cost for perm powers. Renting a power should always be cheaper than purchasing a power.

I agree, working on that, just had to make it look not hideous.

Re: Divinefire - What Gregori said. I wouldn't mind a cheaper 'lame' divinefire though.

Heck, most of the major problems with it would seem a lot smaller if taking the ability for the 1 IG year, rather than permanent, had a much smaller cost. It makes a lot of sense, really. It shouldn't cost the same amount of essence to gain an ability -forever- (unless you drop it for another) as it would to 'rent' it for a little less than 2 RL weeks.

Edit: Looks like Gregori got there first.

I agree with like everything you posted.

Some of my own thoughts:

Change Divinefire into:

Truefire (current divinefire, but lasts less time)

FirePulse (divinefire that hits once, possibly with a very short shield so you can leave. This is anti gank. Also reminds me of trueheal though).


Truefire is same as above

Firepulse can be maybe half?

I really like these adjustments.

Oh, combine shrink/expand to be SizeControl for the same cost maybe?

Also, another idea for divinefire, make it closer to the AB for what it looks like. Make it not health health/mana/ego, make it prevent damage to them (you can still be insta'd as a note in this) and cure all affs as well as stopping ents/denizens

Wouldn't the effects be the same? You'd be able to heal up while DF'd, so you'd end up with full health, mana and ego anyway when the DF fades...

I can still use wrack, absolve, mindburst, stag insta, swoop, and all those things though. If people work for their insta they WILL get their insta or have a chance to. Alot of time I see people dfire is to stop those kinds of kills, if that doesnt work I think you might see more actual kills.

Big approval on the 50/75/100

If you really want a lame divinefire, my idea is to just make an ability called 'DivineFlare' that heals hp/mana/end + afflictions just once and that's it. It won't save you from ganks or continuously heal you on a tick.

But I really, really just don't like divinefire at all.

What do you guys think about the other stuff?

Additionally, Veneration ought to be lowered to 50mil essence or even lower than that.. 25mil. Why? Because not all Avatars bash, and some of them are very heavy into Order RP (Nariah is my best example I can think of). The purpose was to make cults more accessible and for them to be more of an RP motivator.. but the cost alone makes that very much impossible. getting Avatar by itself is already a difficult task.

Thing is, no one knows what's in Cults right now, so until then, I feel that it's unfair to ask for lowering the essence cost until we know what's in it. That's why I've only commented on skills we've all used and know.

Personally, as long as it works as antigank/antijump, I don't care much what it does. It could sling me to the aetherplex for all I care.

My pants are fairly happy with this thread. Make it so, Number One.

So if you take a choiceshout for 1 point (while everything else is multiple of 2 or 5), you could never get a weight of 50?

A weight of 50 on divinefire seems like a good call.

Honestly, I think customizing things should take essence (perhaps even more essence than current costs) but have zero weight. That way its extra customizability to grind/work for, but doesn't keep you from picking combat perks either.

Edit: I actually like the idea of having to pick which stat boosts you need. But that's just me.

Can you explain your idea for temporary powers a little more? Maybe an example? I'm not quite sure I get it.

I made these numbers on the assumption that more stuff will be added for the future as well, heh.

Re: flavour stuff costing 0 weight - my problem with that is that it'll mean weights will ONLY be for combat, and while we might have swung the pendulum a bit too far one way towards 'demis aren't very good now', I certainly do not want it swung back to 'need to be demi to compete'. I feel that a very low weight will suffice.

Edit:

Example for temporary powers:

Razenth is a poor demi with 0 essence, so he can't get any essence for neat toys, but he still wants to play, so he purchases these temp powers under the double weight system:

+Con (10 weight)
+Int (10 weight)
Custom Zap (30 weight)
Seek (10 weight)

-What the double weight system does is limit your choices even further, but it allows you get abilities you would not be able to posses for a limited amount of time, but with an added benefit of testing out potential abilities before committing yourself to buying them. Please bear in mind that some of these abilities have further costs attached to them when you use them, like divinefire, which is 10k essence per use, and seek, which is 250.