Page 2 – Lusternia

Commodity Overhaul Feedback Thread

by Furien

Talan2010-08-14 14:12:42Show/Hide

I think that there still need to be some hard coded average values even if there are no longer price floors on commodities. Provided enough stock now, the prices seem to reach a point where the price plummets, irrespective of market value. A window around these value prices where the current sale prices fluctuate more gradually would be a good thing, even if the window were only 20 units on either side of the average price.

Here's what happened recently in Paavik:

CODE

Proprietor: Paavik.
CommodityÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â StockÂ Â Â Â Â Â We Sell At
GemsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 110Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 1

GemsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 100Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 1

GemsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 90Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 50

GemsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 80Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 100

GemsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 70Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 150

GemsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 60Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 200

GemsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 50Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 250

GemsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 40Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 310

GemsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 30Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 490

GemsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 20Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 790

GemsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 10Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â 1210

So note, this is only gems in Paavik, not everything is this extreme, though I did see similarly huge jumps for steel when I was playing around with it, and I am not done poking this in general. I think though, that it might be good to taper the price adjustments around the "reasonable price" window, rather than have them plummet or rise linearly once the required threshold of stock is met.

This would be most helpful for things (metals) which can't really be quested for, allowing people to buy slightly more when the production tics bring the prices down to the average window. Otherwise, it is a bit of a scary notion if you really need silver or something, and then you have wait hours to buy 10 before the price jumps up terribly high, and so on.

Unknown2010-08-14 17:29:07Show/Hide

QUOTE (Talan @ Aug 14 2010, 09:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This would be most helpful for things (metals) which can't really be quested for, allowing people to buy slightly more when the production tics bring the prices down to the average window. Otherwise, it is a bit of a scary notion if you really need silver or something, and then you have wait hours to buy 10 before the price jumps up terribly high, and so on.

Or grain. It's especially an issue since Estelbar/Acknor are the only villages that make any appreciable amount of grain ever, and only based on how many grain farmers they have. Before this change, grain was always the most expensive food comm for this reason, and it just feels like it is bound to worsen now without change, nevermind it being so counter-intuitive.

Sakr2010-08-14 18:06:07Show/Hide

egh, did a tour for myself, and bought 10 leather for 70 gold, and then watched the price jump to 20g per....

Unknown2010-08-15 02:28:10Show/Hide

So, can anyone share Hallifax's tithes from their revenue logs? Conquest is still looking extremely bleak for comms at the moment, and it would be nice to compare to commercial.

Tekora2010-08-15 03:10:16Show/Hide

CODE

revlog hallifax 0 6 gems commodities
2010/08/09 04:48:46 - Dairuchi tithed 15 gems commodities
2010/08/09 10:41:56 - Rockholm tithed 40 gems commodities
2010/08/09 17:19:01 - Dairuchi tithed 15 gems commodities
2010/08/09 23:06:06 - Rockholm tithed 50 gems commodities
3130h, 4080m, 4500e, 10p, 13350en, 18600w elrxp-
revlog hallifax 0 5 gems commodities
2010/08/10 05:51:54 - Dairuchi tithed 21 gems commodities
2010/08/10 11:34:04 - Rockholm tithed 42 gems commodities
2010/08/10 18:17:11 - Dairuchi tithed 24 gems commodities
3130h, 4080m, 4500e, 10p, 13350en, 18600w elrxp-
revlog hallifax 0 4 gems commodities
2010/08/11 00:01:30 - Rockholm tithed 26 gems commodities
2010/08/11 06:46:04 - Dairuchi tithed 56 gems commodities
2010/08/11 12:26:12 - Rockholm tithed 61 gems commodities
2010/08/11 19:13:20 - Dairuchi tithed 15 gems commodities
3130h, 4080m, 4500e, 10p, 13350en, 18600w elrxp-
revlog hallifax 0 3 gems commodities
2010/08/12 00:51:15 - Rockholm tithed 56 gems commodities
2010/08/12 07:36:33 - Dairuchi tithed 68 gems commodities
2010/08/12 13:19:43 - Rockholm tithed 35 gems commodities
2010/08/12 19:58:18 - Dairuchi tithed 59 gems commodities
3130h, 4080m, 4500e, 10p, 13350en, 18600w elrxp-
revlog hallifax 0 2 gems commodities
2010/08/13 01:53:40 - Rockholm tithed 96 gems commodities
2010/08/13 08:24:01 - Dairuchi tithed 23 gems commodities
2010/08/13 14:20:03 - Rockholm tithed 35 gems commodities
2010/08/13 20:51:07 - Dairuchi tithed 38 gems commodities
3130h, 4080m, 4500e, 10p, 13350en, 18600w elrxp-
revlog hallifax 0 1 gems commodities
2010/08/14 01:26:44 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 01:26:44 - Rockholm tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 02:15:46 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 02:15:46 - Rockholm tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 02:41:46 - Dairuchi tithed 3 gems commodities
2010/08/14 02:41:46 - Rockholm tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 02:45:49 - Rockholm tithed 0 gems commodities
2010/08/14 04:27:27 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 04:27:27 - Rockholm tithed 1 gems commodities
2010/08/14 05:22:29 - Dairuchi tithed 3 gems commodities
2010/08/14 05:22:29 - Rockholm tithed 1 gems commodities
2010/08/14 06:13:32 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 06:13:32 - Rockholm tithed 1 gems commodities
2010/08/14 07:04:34 - Dairuchi tithed 3 gems commodities
2010/08/14 07:04:34 - Rockholm tithed 1 gems commodities
2010/08/14 08:19:35 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 08:19:35 - Rockholm tithed 1 gems commodities
2010/08/14 08:34:35 - Dairuchi tithed 3 gems commodities
2010/08/14 08:34:35 - Rockholm tithed 1 gems commodities
2010/08/14 10:15:36 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 10:15:36 - Rockholm tithed 1 gems commodities
2010/08/14 10:44:37 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 11:41:37 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 12:51:38 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 14:12:38 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 14:56:38 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 16:30:40 - Dairuchi tithed 1 gems commodities
2010/08/14 16:54:42 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 17:38:43 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 19:18:43 - Dairuchi tithed 1 gems commodities
2010/08/14 20:22:15 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
2010/08/14 21:12:17 - Dairuchi tithed 1 gems commodities
2010/08/14 22:12:18 - Dairuchi tithed 1 gems commodities
2010/08/14 23:07:18 - Dairuchi tithed 2 gems commodities
3130h, 4080m, 4500e, 10p, 13350en, 18600w elrxp

I'm still very very worried.

Unknown2010-08-15 03:23:23Show/Hide

QUOTE (Tekora @ Aug 14 2010, 10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm still very very worried.

I guess the next step is to flood the markets as much as possible and see what effect that has for Glom, as Xenthos suggested in (one of) the other thread(s).

Ameryth2010-08-15 05:42:23Show/Hide

I've happily watched grain prices in Acknor go down to a wonderful 18per, the result of a number of people working for a fair while, spending their own resources. Grain shot up to 58. Not happy. ;_;

Talan2010-08-18 00:05:40Show/Hide

It appears as though the villages are not producing anything, either naturally or through increased later tithes as a result of quests being done. We've now watched it for a few days and there seem to be no increases in stock except what is directly resulted from doing quests, at that moment. Ragniliff mentions it either here or in one of the other three threads.

Previously, if you sold 100 rockeaters at a market, 100 gems would immediately appear for sale at the market. Later on there would be a production tic, and at that time 100 more gems would appear in the market, and some percentage of 100 gems would be tithed to the controlling org's market, the quantity determined by the org's governance type. Thus, doing the commodities quests resulted in immediate stock increase and price adjustments, as well as temporary boosted production. This is no longer happening. The only result of doing commodities quests is the immediate impact on current stock/price, with neither tithes nor production being boosted later.

Villages also do not seem to be producing anything for their markets in the normal course. There are 12 ewes and 12 steers in Shanthmark. They should be producing cloth, meat, milk, and leather in abundance, yet we have left this market to sit for 2 days, and there have been only negligible changes to the stock of any of these, which can be attributed to people doing a handful of quests. Previously, there would have been a couple hundred of each of these commodities produced in that time. The same is true for things like wood, fruit, metals, etc. in these villages and other villages. There have been no noticeable changes to the stock in these in any villages except where people have actively done quests.

It has taken a few days of looking at the number to be sure they're not changing. They're not. Are these things intended? It seems like either issue is a bug.

Eventru2010-08-18 00:21:04Show/Hide

We're aware of some bugs regarding production and we're looking into it! Hopefully it'll be resolved soon. Part of the problem is figuring out where one or two 'missed connections' occurred from the old system to the new. Estarra wasn't kidding when she said it was a nightmare.

Nariah2010-08-18 00:33:25Show/Hide

From the small about of playing around with it that I did so far, I'd like to throw my support behind a few of the suggestions mentioned across several threads.

Raise the batch limit per purchase OR lower how purchasing a batch affects prices
Raise the impact of certain commodity quests on prices (see below)

I've spent a fair bit of time trying to bring down the silk prices in Angkrag with spinnerets from Tolborolla and after finally knocking it down from 91 to 80 I checked how a batch of ten would influence the price of the remaining 270 or so silk. It jumped from 80 to 88.

Lilia2010-08-18 05:57:14Show/Hide

I just gave 30 wood to Dairuchi. There was no wood there previously. The first log was priced at 498 which makes me think the prices start at 500. I didn't check every subsequent one, but the price is now 166, so it went down fairly quickly.

Nariah2010-08-18 14:54:25Show/Hide

That sounds very nice, if only I had that luck with spinnerets. As it was, the price went down by 1gp per 2 spinnerets.

Xavius2010-08-18 18:20:05Show/Hide

QUOTE (Nariah @ Aug 18 2010, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That sounds very nice, if only I had that luck with spinnerets. As it was, the price went down by 1gp per 2 spinnerets.

I wouldn't complain about this. Judging by the numbers we've seen, that means that the price will be more stable, once you get to a price you want.

Unknown2010-08-18 19:44:26Show/Hide

QUOTE (Xavius @ Aug 18 2010, 01:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't complain about this. Judging by the numbers we've seen, that means that the price will be more stable, once you get to a price you want.

And we've already mentioned that spiders are not producing any silk at all in the villages, and that it's being looked at, so this will have an obvious impact once it is fixed.

So... we just have to wait for now.

Unknown2010-08-19 01:31:11Show/Hide

Managed to get cloth into the single digit price range twice today, but it required a lot of persistence. The difference in the number of turn-ins between cloth and gems is very noticeable, and overall it feels notably easier to change gem prices. I'm assuming base production of cloth will be much higher than that of gems once it is functioning, though... but if it isn't, it should.

Fania2010-08-22 23:22:01Show/Hide

Considering how many commodities it takes to create a set of robes now, I think the current system is unreasonable. It takes 125 coms just to make great robes. The amount of time and effort one would have to put into getting the coms down to a reasonable price it would almost only be worth it to only buy from city/community shops. For those of us who can't be here all the time it makes it really difficult to make a decent amount of money (I've already sold less because of the design commodity increase).

I'd like to see a raise in the amount we can buy each time. 10 is very limiting. I think it should be changed so that the amount we can buy based on a percentage of the total in stock (or on some kind of scale). You could use 20% as the most amount you could buy at once. If there were 250 cloth in stock, the most you could buy is 50 at a time, then 40, then 32, then 24, ect. the prices may go up higher each time you buy, but you'd be able to buy more at once until the stock becomes too low. Even 10% would be better than only buying 10 at a time. It could also be set to sell commodities one at a time after going under 20 commodities.

Shaddus2010-08-23 07:55:25Show/Hide

QUOTE

wares
Proprietor: Acknor.
Commodity Stock We Sell At
Wood 41 90 gp
Leather 142 65 gp
Gems 52 240 gp
Grain 147 30 gp
Meat 271 10 gp
Milk 72 14 gp
Poultry 267 8 gp
Fruit 124 15 gp
Vegetables 140 15 gp
Eggs 50 10 gp
1856h, 1836m, 1540e, 10p, elrxk<>-|Safe|
buy 40 wood
You can't buy more than ten at a time in this shop.
1856h, 1836m, 1540e, 10p, elrxk<>-|Safe|
buy 10 wood
You purchase 10 wood for 900 gold.
1856h, 1836m, 1540e, 10p, elrxk<>-|Safe|
buy 10 wood
You purchase 10 wood for 1300 gold.
1856h, 1836m, 1540e, 10p, elrxk<>-|Safe|
buy 10 wood
You purchase 10 wood for 2120 gold.
1856h, 1836m, 1540e, 10p, elrxk<>-|Safe|
wares
Proprietor: Acknor.
Commodity Stock We Sell At
Wood 11 334 gp
Leather 142 65 gp
Gems 52 240 gp
Grain 147 30 gp
Meat 271 10 gp
Milk 72 14 gp
Poultry 267 8 gp
Fruit 124 15 gp
Vegetables 140 15 gp
Eggs 50 10 gp

Uh, what? Inflation much?

Xavius2010-08-23 08:07:59Show/Hide

QUOTE (Shaddus Mes'ard @ Aug 23 2010, 02:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uh, what? Inflation much?

Welcome to the new system! I'm still figuring out how to cope with it myself. You can get real bargains, but you're more likely to be unable to buy more comms at a respectable price than you produce in the few seconds before you buy. If you're a cook, fine. If you're an artisan (or worse, a Trade Minister without sufficient villages), you're screwed.

EDIT: Actually, would the Powers That Be consider adding passive production for all produced comms (with accompanying price drops) in all villages?

Rika2010-08-23 08:15:27Show/Hide

On the other hand, I got to buy 10 gems for a total of 250 gold today.

Shaddus2010-08-23 08:15:52Show/Hide

QUOTE (Xavius @ Aug 23 2010, 03:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uh, yeah. I hope when the Charites are sitting around complaining about how people keep designing really cheap things (like my salt keg), they figure out why.