There are a lot of commodities that simply are not getting produced at all anymore, and cannot without the player base engaging in massively bizarre behavior (as an example, there's no way grain, vegetables, or fruit will be produced much at all unless we remove all statues/guards from Acknor/Estelbar and allows farmers to move back and forth or be killed for their comms without impunity).

Though, I do feel it's time to emphasize that it has been days now. These are nasty, debilitating bugs that severely cripple many people from functioning in their trades. And since the production of everything but gems has ground down nearly to a total halt, the issue of comm hoarding is only being encouraged and likely to become more pronounced as this goes on (as we don't even know exactly how efficient the new system will be once it's actually working properly).

That's not really true. Every village PASSIVELY produces commodities. Doing commodity quests simply enhance (or reduce) production. Acknor and Estelbar are definitely producing grain, veggies and fruit! (BTW, killing them reduces the passive production in that village.)



I've been looking over the commodity production and see overstock (and low prices) for almost every comm (including steel, meat, fish, fruit, veggies, etc.). While we definitely will be tweaking this week, I don't think it is so dire that it will 'cripple' trades.

Anyway, keep giving us constructive feedback! (And Charites are probbly not going to be amused by salt kegs.)

They are SUPPOSED to. They have not been, or at least some have noticeably not been. Maybe Estelbar is functioning properly again, as I haven't been watching it, but ewes/steers are still having absolutely no bearing on how much cloth/leather is produced in Shanthmark/Paavik. I will go buy fruit, vegetables, and grain, and see if they actually do produce any more without a direct change of farmers, just to be sure.

The ONLY observable production in villages these days has been from commodity turn-ins.

It's been bugged and sitting around as classified. I understand it might not be easy to fix, but, it really is not working.

Something appears borked with your commodity pricing, then. "Overstock" (assuming that means >250, the old cap) doesn't necessary turn into "low prices". For that matter, the correlation between stock and pricing appears to be lacking a universal calibration. See below:




Gems and silk are priced higher in Angkrag than in Southgard, despite Angkrag having higher stocks. Similarly, although Southgard has more iron and marble, it's priced higher than in Angkrag.

Gems, while "overstock" in Angkrag, are priced at almost double the old low price limit of 108 per.

Angkrag would also be passively generating over a hundred silk per day due to the silk spiders under the old system, but doesn't seem to now. This is something that's harder to keep track of, though.
EDIT: To clarify this last point, they're not appearing in the shop or in tithes - what we're getting tithed I would expect from people doing the Tolborolla quest.

From my testing, each village has a bias. It seems that those that are 'specialized' in a certain comm are designed to produce more 'stable' prices, by taking longer to hit the baseline and not moving as fast up or down when purchases are made. In places where certain comms aren't standard fare, like silk in Southgard or marble in Angkrag, the markets are highly volatile, swinging up and down dramatically with minor additions/purchases. Ultimately it should result in a more steady stock in those places, once prices have fully normalized.

It seems one rule of thumb to it is 'does it produce it on its own in sizeable amounts'.

Sorry, but that's not how it works. "Overstock" means the inventory level is above the baseline inventory target for that village. Every village has different inventory levels for every commodity (i.e., villages that produce lots of rope will have higher inventory targets than villages that produce little or none). To get an idea what the inventory is, look at the prices. If two villages are selling grain at 25 gold but have different inventory amounts, it simply indicates that their inventories are each equally above their respective target inventories. Yes, it's more complicated (and realistic) then what you may imagine, but I'm sure village traders will develop strategies accordingly over time. The correlations between stock and pricing are working perfectly!

In any event, we are keeping a pulse on the commodity system and plan to make some adjustments (hopefully) this week.

I'm fairly sure that Angkrag never produced over 100 silk per day due to the spiders. Angkrag produces a passive amount of silk and the number of spiders adjusts that amount--but not by 100!

As far as I'm aware, spiders ARE affecting shop inventories and tithing of silk. It just may appear so gradual under the new system that it's hard to notice.

Well, that's the problem. The creation is so gradual that it's hard to notice, which means that compared to the old production it's far less (and, by all our records, 'hard to notice' means '0 production whatsoever except what is produced by commodities being brought in').

Stack lessened production with increased need and you have a serious problem.

I am afraid that you are incorrect. The amount of silk produced really was that high, perhaps even more than 100, with all 12 spiders. Really really.

I'm never incorrect!


I still maintain that spiders, even at 12, never produced 100 silk in Angkrag on their own (i.e, above the passive levels).

Taking a look at tithing from Angkrag reveals that it does not, in fact, produce anything passively unless quests are done. And even then, it's 1-3 comms tops a day. There was a day when I turned in over 20 spinnerets, I could not recall which day it was, but the tithing was still 1-3 silk tops, if any, for all past weaves.

I do wonder, however, if that is not due to Magnagora being currently a conquest nation and something, maybe, being buggy about that, or this drastic.

Was 100 a cap for passive production on just silk or other commodities too? Various ores in Angkrag always used to be over a hundred a weave.

I'm sure you are wrong. Those 1-3 comms include the passive production which are now spread throughout the day rather than in lump amounts.

Frankly, I don't know where we are getting the number 100 except that I know that's not the amount spiders produce. Again, the ores are spread throughout the day rather than in lump sums (how many times can I say that?).

But there were days without any silk production whatsoever (then again I can't verify whether we had spiders on that day or not), and 1-3 was the entirety of the daily production when it happened, same for any other commodity from Angkrag.

I'm not really sure how to give you input when you tell me something is not true that I know to be true. All 12 spiders in either Dairuchi or Angkrag, previously, yielded boatloads of silk produced in the village. Regardless of what had been, 100 silk per day coming from the 12 silk spiders (however they're split between the two villages) would seem to be a reasonable amount of production, especially given the cost for robes.

It also depended on silk stock too, in the old, old system before the first revamp with conquest. Having all 12 spiders meant you could get 50~ silk per tithe, every tithe. If the village had 250 silk in stock, this would go up to 80-90 silk per tithe.

Not per day. Per tithe.

I can't say I have made a lot of observations on silk since then, but I keep hearing from Esano that he sees no change in how much silk the village holds unless they specifically quest to add it to stock. If it is so small that we can't see it, even with maxed production factors, it needs changing.

Now, as for Estarra. This is especially for you.



Is this meant to imply that 25 gold per grain should be a considered a good, cheap price? This was a price that simply encouraged people to look elsewhere and try to get it cheaper in the old system, because there were sources that allowed them to. Now? Not the case.

Bolded for emphasis. If you read only one paragraph in this post, read this next one.

Back when I first read the commodity system might see a revamp, I asked, very politely, what you and the higher-ups would consider to be good and fair prices for commodities. Not understanding what it is players have come to expect or perceive could be vastly different from what you interpret. This was never answered. And because of this error, all the major players on the old system are feeling the effect, which you appear oblivious to. It would be helpful if you, at the least, provided a little chart of approximate prices YOU think we should be happy to pay. I really want to see where the rift exists.





They are coming up with, and attempting to, pass salt kegs through review. I don't think that's a good sign. Which is sad, because in this current system, gems are about the only highly desirable commodity with potential to come out cheaper than they were in the prior system, and most kegs are made from gems. And the only food comms that are coming out cheaper were the least popular ones (meat, milk, fish). Go figure.

All I can really say or do now is point and scream at bug report 13436. I'm done now, it's too much effort to keep it up otherwise. I'd be happy with just having a chart of prices you believe are good and reasonable, since that might solve issues much more succinctly than waiting for a bug report to resolve, and suffering potential massive e-rage if after over a week it gets shrugged off as simply "not a bug".

Methinks you have trouble with bold!

Here's what the base prices currently are (subject to adjustment at admin discretion):

steel 200
gems 250
silver 145
marble 125
grain 30
meat 50
silk 125
milk 25
poultry 40
fish 35
fruit 20
wood 85
vegetables 15
eggs 10
iron 125
leather 65
coal 35
platinum 155
cloth 50
gold 150
rope 60

Anything above those prices indicate an understock and anything under indicate overstock. Keep in mind that overstock can drive those prices quite low!

Thank you for posting these, that answers a LOT of questions. These prices are double or triple what we expect, heh. This clears up a big part of the disconnect, I think.

I second what Esano has been saying. This is Angkrag's silk tithes:

2010/08/25 04:20:21 - Angkrag tithed 1 silk commodities
2010/08/25 12:57:26 - Angkrag tithed 1 silk commodities

2010/08/24 10:25:39 - Angkrag tithed 1 silk commodities

2010/08/23 00:41:03 - Angkrag tithed 1 silk commodities
2010/08/23 08:26:04 - Angkrag tithed 1 silk commodities
2010/08/23 16:08:14 - Angkrag tithed 1 silk commodities

No activity.

2010/08/21 19:48:34 - Angkrag tithed 1 silk commodities

2010/08/20 08:03:38 - Angkrag tithed 1 silk commodities

2010/08/19 09:19:06 - Angkrag tithed 1 silk commodities

Right now we do have spiders but I cannot verify how long we have had them for. Even when we do the spinnerets quest this changes little, nor does the stock and prices seem to change at all.

Admittedly though it is very hard to test this new system because there are too many ifs but even assuming the worse I'm really not sure how is anyone supposed to make any robes right now.