According to the report, power management to get in Illumination seems to be an issue. For all I care, Illumination can cost 3 or 5 power, if it helps giving badluck an adequate cost, if the admins would rather not change the way it works.

You would think that would be reason enough for it to exist, but it also let Gregori make a very funny. You just have to skim over all the eye-glazing-over and snarky stuff.

Gregori's a little overzealous, but Paradigmatics really only has four skills: badluck, greywhispers, revelations, and illumination. Personally, I think whispers is far and away worse than badluck. I think badluck is an obnoxious little quirk more than anything (except that it really does need a power cost, which it's going to get).

Beyond that is a difference of philosophy. I know Gregori would rather keep badluck and whispers as the crux of the set. I'd happily trade downgrades for both of them for a more robust skill in general. Paradigmatics has all sorts of abilities that're saddled with ridiculous time or utility issues, like eyesnare, figment, visionflux, reality, truename, gnosis, and fusion. I don't know that one approach is necessarily better than the other, except that spreading Paradigmatics' power out over the whole skill would probably cut down on the crying without cutting down on the requisite ass kicking.

Not to mention make things more interesting for you.

Kalin suggested his own nerfs in his report.

Lets see how those play out before we try and jam more down the pipe. Over doing it up front is harder to correct than a gradual adjustment. I realize you win lusternia by making sure the other side is as crappy as possible, but a lot of this is beyond the pale silly.

I just spent the last hour having Kalin try and build up insanity on me. He couldn't do it without using the transmology stuff at all. Badluck was annoying as heck, and deserves the power cost Kalin is suggesting, but it didn't screw me over either.- even hitting badluck with constant psionics combos, I had him at 9 vessles without even trying very hard for that strategy*. And I'm a "noncombatant scrub", remember. Even with all the paradigmatics stuff firing? I didn't get close to insanity kill conditions. Proper curing for insanity goes miles and miles here.

What we don't need to see is a pyromancy redux. Pound it into the ground so far that even with all terts, power moves, beasts, illusion, and toys firing, you can't reach the kill anymore. So, lets see how Kalin's self nerf works out, instead of taking the "I win by smashing your skillset in envoys" approach that messed pyro all up.

Same thing for Harmonics/Trans. A gentle touch, this time please, envoys. Neither "nerf this into the ground", or "Give me awesome offense but let me retain all my defense!"

*- I was messing around, bouncing between burst combos, a damage combo, a burn combo, and even throwing in a demesne nuke and some random staffings.

Remember that vessels are designed to be able to stack up even if the only thing you do is use vessels and no other skills at all. So probably not the best example here.

It doesn't at all negate the point that with just paradigmatics (i.e Egran) and proper curing, I was unable to get her to truename, let alone illuminate, while she was able to maintain an offense and curing.

Actually, it is. See astrick. I was using balance on staff attacks and even a demesne nuke. Because it *felt* like the psionics combos couldn't be getting anywhere, because they were hitting badluck.

But, turns out, bursts were making it through, and stacked a bit, even with badluck, and me alternating eq usage. Granted, I more than likely had a string of bursts when he hit 9. I don't recall, because I was more about just keeping up the offense and watching badluck and insanity.

It's definitely as annoying as all crap. Especially when you blow your beast balance, and the first part of the psionics combo smacks badluck. That's very facepalm. But honestly, I figured that, using psionics, it would stop me cold.

There is nothing sarcastic about pyromancy being said. That special report (and admittedly was alot to do with no invested envoys on it's side) was all nerfs to Pyromancy with no compensation. While the Aeromancy report was all buffs.

I have seen the report, and pyromancers are pretty much garbage now as far as their meld is concerned. The fact they have psionics doesn't cut it either. Aeromancers had psionics too, and using that logic they should have got nothing as well. It's a simple thing to tank a pyro meld now, and while it was OMGWTF previously, it shouldn't have been reduced to "LOLPYRO." Any halfway pretending to be unbiased envoy should agree with that.

That was me just quoting a post I made in another thread about mages. Too lazy to change.

And regardless of how poor a meld a mage has, having Psionics helps them out a ton, that can't be denied. The same can't be said for Druids, who definitely are no mages any way you slice.

Not denying that psionics doesn't help them. Remember I played a druid for years. I am aware of the discrepancy. I am saying though that using the excuse "they don't need fixing, they have psionics" doesn't fly, when aeromancers got buffed up considerably, while having psionics.

edit:: Not to mention that the special report for pyromancy was not a special report for pyromancy it was a special report for aeromancy and "let's nerf pyromancy while nobody is looking." Ixchilgal made a couple comments on the report before RL took him away and Kalikai refused to change envoys for months, despite being asked to do so. So we had nobody who could speak on the report, having only 1 guild in the city at the time.

Well now, I didn't say that, if anything, all I've said is 'mages as a class are pretty awesome. Perhaps too awesome'

I may have missed something but why should someone be able to stack up massive insanity with paradigmatics alone? (and a similar note, aeonics alone for timewarp. Impossible to do without lots of supplementary hindering and afflicting). Templars with bad luck are tricky to handle, but illuminati with their ents/affs and para together is much deadlier.

If anything, that's just too broad a comment. Psionics is the heart of it, but what, if anything, to do about the mage/druid bit in general is a complex question! Adjust druid terts? "fix" sap?



Aha, but that's just it! He couldn't do it with just paradigmatics- and nobody is saying he should have been able to. But Egran is a templar, and only has paradigmatics, and that was the source of the ranting in the thread this time- but with proper curing, he never would have been able to! Kalin couldn't on me, even with me getting messed with with the passive trans aura, and being a "noncom scrub", and I even managed to keep up an offense on him (though I did have some really annoying hits of badluck- hence, the power cost- already in the report Kalin has made).

You did miss something. They shouldn't be able to and they can't which was what we were saying and proving. Veyrzhul was of the opinion that they could. I said a Templar using just paradigmatics, against someoe with proper curing, can't get you to illuminate.

I would suggest posting a log of this, it's not really about believing you or not it's just that your words would have more weight behind them if the people arguing could compare the two logs to see differences, allowing them to make up their own minds and making it more difficult for them to dispute what is in-front of them.

The very best log in this case would be to get Egran, and say, "Ok Egran, do to me exactly what you did to Veyhzul". Since in the log he was using balance on revlations, there wasn't really anything different than what Kalin was doing, but why have the extra variables, after all.

That, and my log with Kalin is full of getting hit with his Transmology aura thing, so its spammed to death with enormous smiley faces and other random crap (and clan chatter) that I don't feel like trimming down tonight. I'll bug Egran when he's around.

I will say that it was rather possible and rather quickly to build it on me prior if someone knew what they were doing- but my curing just wasn't hacking it. When that was changed, the result was massively different.

Wow this thread is a whole unique status of... all over the place..... I went to one thread I thought would be fairly straight forward and I have replies abound.

1) By the same token of Sadie being able to fight without being stacked while others are, could we not use the argument that "She got lucky" while others are always unlucky? Why dont you create a new log and see how it goes!

2) Veyrzhul, I see a change to make choke room wide, which while it hits everyone stops it being so insanely easy to group gank someone if only 1 person chokes. Bad lucks turn?

3) Badluck really shouldnt stack, it MIGHT be ok to let it eat focus bal (MIND, but leave body be) but it should not cause balance loss for focusing. This way it does not penalize attempts to cure.

4) Aeromancers got crazy. They did not come out ok, they came out way way ahead. Most potent meld of all the guilds, heck they even got thronlash++++ that they dont have to work for really it decides if its lethal or not. All the herb afflictions easily could stack up with telekinesis, I myself with no meld could stack up some herbs so I know aeros would have no problem with it.

5) Pyromancers got nerfed some time after I left, and they got nothing to speak of. They should have another report to be fair with an active envoy or at least feedback from previous pyromancers. Alot of minor things would help, like being able to hinder or stun like most every other meld in the game?

6) Why does a guild with ectoplasm have a passive cleanse cure which I believe cures first? And an ent that doubles eq/bal if you leave on a chance (for 4 times longer bal loss and doubled eq loss)?

7) There are some harmonics things to change too.. remember where we tried to remove most every dodge skill in the game? Hey foresight is IMPROVED dodge with 0 cost and doesnt require you train a whole skillset for it! Lets change that or give it heavy costs and such if we must have another dodge skill.

8) Support combat reevaluation!

This is correct, mucous will always cure before ectoplasm.


Agreed, I will gladly trade Foresight for a little stability and dependability in Researcher offense.