As Estarra doesn't see the two problems as being connected, and I'm willing to agree that they are two separate issues, I'm making a separate thread. If the reason design comms were doubled a far more graceful solution could of been done and I'm hoping it can be. I'd personally like to see the admins with the trademasters or the mortal review board go in and cherry pick what needs its comms adjusted. Something like cookies, rings, and bracelets can easily be doubled without negatively impacting things outside of cutting down on the number of useless ones made and bloating the database. Thrones, masterweapons, greatrobes, no one was making extras of these and bloating out our database. I don't see how they were not fine as they were.

I'm really not willing at this time to revisit adjusting designs. Frankly, it's impossible to reverse the adjustments that were made and it seems impractical to go through every single design and adjust each one individually. I think more people were concerned with vials being expensive than thrones, masterweapons, greatrobes, etc. (after all, the big ticket items are bought once and not multiple times).

Mrgh, I don't know what to say. I see your issue and why the things were changed but I think it was a change that created unnecessary issues. I do also know when you are not about to budge on something. I just think there just isn't a need to make already expensive things twice as expensive and that's the opinion I've been seeing from other players. It has cut down on the use of unnecessary but nice to have items like accessories and sorcelglasses.

Could we possibly come back to it once the commodity changes have balanced out and we have solid, average, prices on things?

I think you read incorrectly, then. No one cares about plain old vials - those are really pretty much the same cost that they always were. If anything, people were crying out against normal vials and pipes now being the only practical option compared to the now prohibitively expensive artisan/sorcelglass varieties.

It's sorcelglass that people were especially crying over, since it was already prohibitively expensive. And while I cannot take forging up anymore, I never stocked more than a half dozen or so suits of plate with matching helms in my shop, and I believe the vast majority of shops stocked far fewer. Masterweapons and armour really did not need to have their commodities doubled. Neither did sorcelglass.

Neither did accessories, shoes, underwear, lingerie, baubles, trinkets, chains, etc.

Artisan, all of artisan.

The solution for pipes and vials would be either to double the Arts commodity requirements for them (10 gemstones instead of 5 for vials, 6 wood instead of 3 for pipes) or lower commodity requirements for Artisan pipes and Bookbinder sorcelglass, also retroactively.

And all of artisan too... yes. The prices on some things in the Artisan skill were already quite expensive considering their fluff factor - such as rugs, drapes etc. Now the idea of stasis gems just beckons at me as the only reasonable solution.

I'd be up for doubling gems on vials, then increasing comm production as needed instead of sweeping through everything for change.

PS - you only need one wood comm to make a simple oak pipe at current, not three. Compare that to 10 comms to make an artisan pipe which will last maybe 60 months more, and uh... yeah.

True, I forgot, that's even worse!

And whilst we're at it, bottles should -really- not require three raw gems, makes sorcelglassed bottles an impossibility.

Well, since I don't think that the design commodity amounts will be revisited again so soon, I think now would be an opportune moment to ask: so, how about that there request for a tradeskill special report? I mean, I kinda see the point in both sides of the argument (being that the commodity fix was needed and that, in turn, no one would buy what would be deemed as miscellaneous accessories especially if their costs kinda outweigh their benefits). Unless, of course, I completely misunderstood everything anyway.

What if a report were made to address not only certain functions of things (being unable to wear hairpins under hoods, etc.) as well as their utility (to open up the accessory market not only from the arpeers and people who want to look good, but the people who like the edge in utility and bashing too). Not to mention that we have a ton of unusued patterns (scale and chainmail armour come to mind) that are just sitting there because their latter counterparts just make them obsolete. Perhaps I'm overreaching in the resources I'd think the game has, but it couldn't hurt to see and ask anyway. Besides, things like Tinkering and Bookbinding need some love too. -twiddle-

The Grand Trade Rework Month!

Makes me want to dig up my extended proposal for Trade tweaks and additions!

I'd be happy if this did happen. More then happy. It'd be like if I asked for a piece of candy and you bought me Willy Wonka's factory.

Actually Xiel... Estarra may have just made all of forging useful again. Only the well established players who know and are high enough circle to play the credit markets can really afford to buy good armor and both hunting and PK weapons, so now chain and scale have a whole new level of usefulness (since the superior versions aren't an option to those below the right circle (80-90ish)) given that' they're the only option! Look at the bright side forgers, you'll be able to use many of the items in your skillsets again. Break out the non-masterwork designs for all of those warriors who don't know how to cashbash 60-100K an hour. This is a good thing.

... Now if only there were a way to make weaker variants of enchanted robes that were cheaper.... ahh, cest la vive

(Shuffles off to make more cookies that he can actually make -cheaper- under the new system. Kidding here, don't zap me!)

Yeah you definitely misunderstood. I know lots of people never bought thrones because they were so expensive before this change. And greatrobes aren't just bought once. They last maybe two RL months and then maybe they can be mended for one more, and then you do need to buy another one. And they're not luxuries like thrones, they're downright basics, to the point that guilds even have them in novice requirements (or had, I know some removed them after this change because it's unrealistic to expect a novice to have 25k to fork up for one item alone while they're trying to buy 10 of each herb and pipes and tinderbox and every curative potion...). I don't know about master weapons since I don't play any class that uses them, but I do know her splendours, which I paid RL money (which means a lot to me because not all players are as rich as the artiwhores ) just so I could trans tailoring to get them, barely last any longer than regular robes, and right now they're sitting in Aubrey's dresser so they don't go to waste, since she won't be able to afford to replace them when they decay.



I really hope "at this time" is the key clause of your statement "I'm really not willing at this time to revisit adjusting designs." I don't see why it's "impossible" to reverse the adjustments. To the uneducated non-coder like myself, it would seem to be a mere matter of doing the same thing as before, but in reverse. Apparently it's more complicated than that, but I'm not sure how it's downright impossible. With the impressive complexity of the comm market we see now, I find it hard to believe that it's impossible to set the required number of comms for designs. Really.

If it were just one or the other of these changes, it might be possible to keep certain trades alive, even if they were on life support machines, but with both? No way, you just pulled the plug. Our guild shop has already seen about a 50% drop in business since these changes have made me unable to restock anything besides potions. It's hurting people who use their trade skills for personal profit, but it's also hurting guilds who rely on their shop for income.

She may have been talking about the way existing designs doubled. Code wise, multiplying is really easy, dividing is much, much more difficult, relatively.

It's not really impossible for the most items, just...time consuming, I imagine. My compendiums have a large chunk of the designs with their OLD commodities cost in them (maybe as much as half in some trades). I'd just be happy with Artisan being reverted back...it's a scarcely used trade that eats up hundreds and thousands of commodities with just one item very oftenly. The portables (except instruments) could probably be kept the same as the current comms cost.

Forging also eats up a lot of commodities, and it's a FORCEDLY used trade. It could do with normalizing as well.

And just where have you been, missy?


Ahem. I'm not tryin to be an ass here (and you know me well enough to know that's hard for me, Esty) but its not like we're all novices fresh out of the portals. Those of us complaining are long time players who have collectively spent thousands of dollars on credits, much of which went into cartels and trade artifacts.

To put this another way: I have a character in Aetolia. He has two tradeskills, which I paid 75 credits apiece to trans. I can submit as many designs as I want, can use almost any item as a comm so long as I can hold it, and designs are almost always accepted within a day.


Now, contrast that with Lusternia. Which would you rather play and spend money on?

Bump