From what I'm understanding, she's arguing that Healing as a skillset doesn't preclude other classes from being able to kill people 1v1 but that Healing combined with other Celestine skills isn't as effective as other Healing classes.

As a Researcher, I still have access to Timequake and Shatterplex. I haven't really gotten to the combative part yet so I don't know about the viability, but if they decide not to run away I theoretically have multiple options to kill someone while simultaneously being incredibly tanky. My offense isn't as strong as if I'd taken a different tertiary, and I might not be able to stop farming because I can just gank people to 100, but they still have a REASON to run away instead of just standing there killing the Air lords and tanking my wand blasts.

I don't know how effective it still is, but I read a couple logs about Shadowdancers using Neurosis aura with pixie to go for brutal sleep locks into a mana kill.

I'm not really sure about Moondancers. They might be in the same boat of having nothing even remotely scary enough to make people run from them, but presumably the same tactic would work just minus the Choke.

My point is that at least half of the other Healing classes have the capability of killing someone. It might not happen often due to an inability to hinder someone long enough to actually kill them, but they're still dangerous enough that you can't simply ignore them.

I think she's not necessarily asking for the ability to consistently kill people, but the possibility that if you don't run from her eventually you might actually die.

then this seems to be less about healing and more about celestialism and sacraments. as i recall, veyrzhul was a decent tae'dae celestine healer. we've given you ideas (carcer, vapors/anorexia, aurawarp, judge behind blackout is my favorite) but you have to figure the best combo for -you-.

griping that healing isnt offensive enough is like griping that hexes isnt defensive enough.

and i repeat, inquisition is viable.

Or you have killers who have difficulty killing the tanks because the tanks are tanks, and tanks who have difficulty killing the non-tanks because they are able to absorb damage but not able to dish as much out.

This is also known as 'balance.'

If tanks were as adept at killing as others while also being tanks, it would be pretty darned overpowered.

Shadowdancers and Moondancers who pick Healing are not as good at offense as those who pick Hexes, but they are tankier. That's the nature of the skillset. It's most definitely not a bad skillset for what it is supposed to do.

You just don't seem to like what it's supposed to do, but it fulfills its role pretty well I think.

Absolutely everything you said either confirmed what I was saying or had nothing to do with my problem.

Yes the tanks should not be as good at killing as the 'killers' are. but that does not mean that the tanks should be unable to kill at all.

Also i don't think that anything in this thread that I've said has come across as me being unhappy with the healing skillset (aside from bedevil being semi-useless).

Then you're in luck. They aren't unable to kill at all. Which has absolutely everything to do with your problem.

Celestines may have a harder time of it than, say, Moondancers or Shadowdancers; if so, though, that's not an issue with Healing.

Xenthos is right for the first time ever.

For all it's worth, have you tried to kill anyone? I mean... *tried*.

I'm talking about entering every FFA and Wargames that pop up for any reason just to get the crap knocked out of you.
-Sparring people 400% of your might to practice your survival skills.
-Sparring people 45% of your might to practice killing people.
-Finding people who will let you beat up on them for 10 minutes so you can figure out where you're going wrong and where you're going right.
-Not coming to the forums expecting to be fed how to do something, but having a little ingenuity and trying to figure it out yourself *by taking into account what everyone else has said.*

Work combat backwards. Your goal is to kill someone. In order to kill someone, you can either damage them, absolve them, or judge them. You know how to damage/absolve someone with ~4000ish mana. Good! What if they have more? Okay... now we need to find a way to keep them from healing their mana. Recklessness will keep them from seeing it, unless they have checks. Anorexia will keep them from curing their mana, until they cure it. Better yet, you have inquisition. If you can inquisition someone, you're probably going to be able to kill them.

New goal: learning to stick the inquisition. Think - how does inquisition work? What can you do to help facilitate the inquisition? You have issues with power? What can you do to help yourself avoid those issues?

It's not as simple as if I do this, and follow with this, I can kill by doing this. It's a matter of being creative. It's a matter of getting in the arena with a test subject and hashing it out. Put the time in it, and you'll come up with something that works. End of story.

((And if all you're willing to do is reply to everyone saying "I can't do it. No one can do it. It's impossible," most people are going to expect to see logs of you trying. Remember that by failing, all you've done is eliminate one of the hundred of possibilities before you.))

That's what I've been saying.. did you read the entire thread before posting or just respond to things as you see them?


Don't treat me like a child.

I don't usualy have trouble getting the inquisition off. i'm trans discipline and so power isn't an issue. The problem that arises is. INQUISITION! okay so now I've just stunned you for ~10 seconds, afflicted you a ton, damaged you. stripped all your defenses. but I still have no way to actualy finish you off.

I tested out the offensive power of using inquisition on a celestian named 'draylor' who is level 57 and has about 3000 max health.

Without hallowedground or sensitivity he didn't die.
Without hallowedground he didn't die
Without sensitivity he didn't die
I had to spend an extra 3 power on hallowedground. wait for power to regen to full (and hope he doesn't move to a new room, since hallowedground doesn't move with me) Then I used my angel to ensure i had sensitivity on him, then spam symbol strike on him as much as I can between applying heretic/infidel/inquisition. THAT killed him. a mere 3000 hp target.

"Don't treat me like a child."

Stopped reading after this. Didn't mean to offend you. After all, I should know better than to try to help anyone, ever, seeing as how this is generally all they ever want to say to me.

I'm seriously starting to understand why most of the major combatants out there are hard-asses and either don't speak up or just tell newbies off.

Tangent: I assume you had fervor up. If not, put it up. Use radiance, not symbol strike. I can't tell from the wording of your post whether you used inquisition by itself and hoped for it to kill someone, or if you followed through with attacks. If you did the latter, kudos; but use radiance. If you did the former, inquisition does about 20 damage every 2 or 3 seconds.

Fervour was up

Yes I did follow inquisition with as many attacks as I could. using radiance may help, I doubt it would make up the difference between a 3k and a 7-8k health target though

did you aurawarp him to keep him from curing the passives from heretic/infidel? was your angel properly wrathed, and with what imbued?


also, just so you know, 80% of celestine pvpers don't take methrenton symbols. raziela vapors are better to invoke, trust me, or elohora kneel/para

radiance is undead only

It got changed. Trust me.

PS: Works on people under the Inqui line now. And if it doesn't, needs to be bugged.

cannot use aurawarp if I'm trying to use inquisition
angel was using sensitivity and anorexia to try to keep sensitivity stuck. was wrathed.

I have no problem with changing symbols if I beleive that there is a good reason for it.
However if I give up my methrenton symbol I would more or less lose my ability to absolve people. (no more symbol evoke bleeding)

Also methrenton symbol is better then it used to be. because pox was replaced by recklessness.

also, think about using sleep after inqui. sleep = prone = like 50% more damage. plus i'm somewhat sure they cant wake up during inqui

That doesn't work. Inqui does very minor damage every second or two. And how would being prone increase magic damage?

A quick and simple search yields the following:





The extra damage from prone is for Monk attacks only AFAIK, Shaddus.

yes, but then you can give blackout on balance, and hide wrathed bleeding.


just to make sure, what syntax are you using for imbuing your angel?