Sometimes I wonder what Lusternia is catering, for RPers or Metagamers?

Metagamers hands down.

You people are making my coffee taste like Splenda in comparison to this bitter.

I also think you're not using the right word, here: metagamers are different from min-maxers. Nothing is wrong with min-maxing, some people just figure it supersedes RP.

I think you could do it such that it's a standard. For instance, monk archetypes get +1 str, +2dex, +1 con, -2 int, -2 cha or whatever (maybe we should call them modifiers instead, then). Of course, you couldn't do this for all races that are monks, because you'd be re-favoring the race for a particular archetype. Illithoids probably shouldn't get that bonus for a monk (but maybe they should!). Perhaps the best thing to do would be to compile a list of what archetypes a race is strong at and what they are weak at, and only apply these statpacks or evolutions there. I don't think it's necessary that you create six (is it six?) statpacks per race.



In my mind, you're wrong. Sure, I'll grant you that RP and PVP are two different things, but they don't contradict each other. One is p. The other is q. In fact, there's no reason why they can't compliment each other. I agree that RP can be playing an archetype with a "poor" race for that given circumstance, but a) that solely doesn't make it good RP, and it doesn't prevent someone from having good RP with a PVP-able race.

I don't think anyone can deny that playing a race that is (extremely) disadvantaged in an archetype is facing potential problems. Some people might enjoy this, while others are dissuaded because they want not to only RP, but also achieve certain criterion and abilities and potential in the game. If people like RP constantly failing, I accept that. However, I don't see why easing (notice I didn't say "erasing") some of the disadvantages is actually an argument made from a PVP base, as people playing these races are not min-maxers. Consider reducing some of the huge disadvantages to be an enabler--not for PVP, because it's simply not the case, but rather to allow people to enjoy playing the disadvantaged race without playing the fail race.

This gap between RP and PVP is artificial (yet encouraged by the admin). There doesn't have to be one. People choose to look at the spectrum as black and white, succeed or fail. I think it's better and more realistic to view the spectrum as shaded: races excel or they don't.



Not true. It's also certainly not RPers. The admin shift back and forth, but they do promote (if only indirectly) the gap you're referring to.

More racial abilities as well, kthx. They don't even necessarily have to all show up at level 50 or be inherent either. Could be 75 or a perk of having a racial spec.

Like, for example, Illithoid being able to temporarily devour a couple points of con to fuel their charisma, with some kind of awkward caveat like spontaneous bleeding or diseases because they're all emaciated and gross. Or make it so that Dracnari can light themselves on fire for a while, so they take a little bit of damage over time but get a fair bit of cold DMP (a defence that can be stripped by dropping them in water, or casting rain or cleanse).

Things like that.

Edit: it'd be nice to have one of them turn up for each race at demigod, as well, for the sake of flavour, since you're technically the apex of whatever race you are at that point, even if it's only a cool emote or some DMP/regen while in your race's favoured terrain.

Special racial emotes unlocking at demi would be neat. DMP/regen might get awkward if each race lays claim to a terrain type though - don't think we'd have enough!

Furrikin should have regeneration in honeyed terrain.

Back before IllusoryTerrain was fixed, there was a bug that let you cast terrains by number. This went all the way up to, I think, 39 with only 25 and 26 missing. There are a LOT of terrains. Granted, some of those are Constructed Underground, Natural Underground, freshwater, ocean, deep ocean, sewer, aether, void, garden, and the like, which are mostly specific types of the same terrain, but there are also Beach, which Dracnari need for their BASK, and a few other useful ones.

That said, I don't think regen on home turf makes that much sense, really. Especially given that, for instance, aslaran would likely be given their bonus on grassland, which only occurs naturally in the moors, if memory serves. Other examples would be mugwumps and swamps, which is limited to the forests, Balach, and Duum, or Igasho and Tundra, which is just Snow Valley and Frostica. As opposed to dwarves, who might get one for Constructed Underground, which is EVERYwhere. (examples are all of the hives, all of the mines, the rockeater training grounds, the illithoid prison, the Seal caves, Mag's collegium area...pretty much anywhere underground that's not a naturally occuring cave.) or Merians, who would almost certainly get one for flooded areas, which naturally includes both freshwater (rivers and lakes) and oceans. (Not deep ocean, though, which can't be flooded.)

So, while it might make for interesting flavour, it would only exacerbate the idea that "Races X, Y, and Z are for PvP, and Races N, M, and Q are for RP." Which is what we were trying to move away from.

I like the idea of racial variants for each archetype, but I feel that that, too, is a step in the wrong direction, albeit a different one. The idea of races being a mishmash, so that flavour is the ONLY consideration with the race is...well, sort of bad as well. For me, what would be ideal is for each race to have one or two niches they can easily fill, one or two they can do, but aren't the best at, and one or two that are just bad ideas (without racial specializations). For instance, igasho can be great warriors, and can make passable monks and don't overly suffer at influencing, but should not really try to be a mage/druid or a guardian/wiccan. Conversly, non-spec faelings make great bards and influencers, and decent casters, but a faeling warrior outside a racial spec should be a laughable concept.

I still think aslarans and loboshigarus should have the wolf totem ability (minus the fear resistance) inherent.

Actually, I suggested loboshigaru have scent and aslaran have balancing.

I approve of this or adroitness (per the acrobatics skill). Anything more than that would probably come with a weakness, which I care more about avoiding.

Edit: Ooh! I like the balancing idea even more!

Yikes. Adroitness plus Ooshphet plus Trotting... I don't think I could type fast enough to take advantage of that, unless there's a cap on how many moves per second you can make.

That said, I am all for more neat and flavorful racial abilities. Especially pack formation for lobos.

I don't have any bonuses right now, so I would love to move more than... 2 rooms without getting it. ;_;

Orclach could really use +2 dex. Dex is critical as a warrior and they're horrible with even 13 dex. Res's are nice but not at the expense of gimping the class.

No, it really isn't.

Agreed. It's just using a race in an archtype it isn't good in..

Again, you are basing your argument on whether or not a race is good for PVP in x class. I disagree that everything has to be based on PVP.

That's not what we're "basing our argument on" at all. The point is that "being good at combat" and "being good at RP" are not dichotomous like everything you do seems to indicate. When you're trying to balance stuff that false impression is really damaging!

Rather than trying to adjust stats for all races across the board, why not allow guilds to create individual enhancements that all guild members get. So, for example, Celestines might want eq recover, int, and con while Aquamancers might want int, cha, and a sipping bonus. Two stat increases and some sort of resistance and bonus could go a long way toward negating the penalties normally associated with many of the races and open more races to more guilds. Regardless of what race you are, you will always be more in line with that particular guild than other members of your race, ect.

That or my original idea of adjusting a race's stats depending on their archetype...