So, I have been thinking about some things.

Hallifax hardly seems the Collective existing for the individuals within the Collective, I think thats mostly some sort of afterthought, at least when speaking of those ranked lower than the highest castes.

It has this sort of opressive, elitistic and authoritarian feel that seems to be very downplayed by most, for some reason. Certainly, it seems not at all a very "nice" place to be in. Its approach to Collectivism does not seem, to me at least, to be one where the Lower Castes are anything more than commodities of various value.

I think if a problem were to befell an individual in the Lower Castes the primary question would be "would it cost more in terms of resources and time to fix it than the individual is worth to us networth?"

The whole jargon with "One for Everyone" and "We Are All The Collective" is just propaganda, in the end.

I think.

So why is it it seems like I am one of the only ones who think so? Am I thinking wrong?

Yes. At least as our old Chairman envisioned it. He would often speak at length about the importance of respect between the higher and lower castes, with the belief of the upper castes that they are "more important" being a false assumption that should be cut at an early state. His "little purple", at least the way I read it, clearly states that systems in which one person is worth more than another is a barbarian notion left for other, inferior systems. The caste system designates what cog you are in the machinery, not that you're a more important cog than other cogs.

And honestly, why are people so desperate to turn Hallifax into a hellhole. It is perhaps THE instance in Lusternia where there actually is moral greyness. There's no need to turn it into obviously evil. Lusternia is ready enough for nuking as it is.

This is how I see it. We're all important pieces, no matter how small our role.

@downplayed for some reason: because oppressive elitist authoritarianism is not fun to play in. I guess if being kicked around is your fetish you'd fit right in, but most people don't enjoy it.

I can't say if you're thinking about it wrong, but just as roleplaying America makes Gaudiguch boring, so too does roleplaying Russia/the Borg in Hallifax. Hallifax is really one of the better places to be; no outright signs of poverty, racism is largely overlooked so long as you do your part, technological pinnacle of the Basin (and all perks that goes along with this), everyone is given their appropriate respect and compensation for their position, which is open to change depending on the person's ambition.



I don't think anyone's trying to turn the place obviously evil... and it's a bit of an overreaction to think so. You're spot on with the rest, though.

Yes, I know that.

Personally, I just think thats rather handy propaganda.

As noted, most other seem to take that as the actual way of the system, rather than an excuse for Caste-based authoritarianism and exploitation of the less privileged.

I dunno Hallifax's whole cog thing sounds -alot- like Magnagoran culture. You are but a cog in the mighty engine of transformation etc.

Evil, grey, whatever you wanna call it. As long as you people don't try to turn Hallifax into somewhere that is "good". Because only silly people who jump to conclusions would think that Hallifax is "good". Oh the Beacon of Harmony! We love art and science! Yay! CRYSTALS AND RAINBOWS. Our Nexus world is a giant flower, that means we are shiny and pretty! Nuh uh.

Hallifax is a fairly pleasant place to be, even for the lower-castes, so long as you a) behave appropriately to your caste and b) enjoy your caste's work. If b) isn't the case, there's the opportunity for advancement (if you merit it). If a) isn't the case, though, you're in for something of a rough time. The niceness kind of goes away then.

EDIT: Perhaps this should go to its own thread.

Except we don't kill our cogs at a whim since we're Nobles.

... yeah

Speak for yourself.

You can't expect others to be lying and use that as an assumption that you're right. It just... doesn't work.

Perhaps.

What I mean is, the credo definitely reeks of propaganda. The whole "information" and propaganda thing that Hallifax shows some signs of definitely makes it seem like it is hiding some rather unflattering truths about the morality inherit in the system.

That is what I thought, so I wanted to state that and let others know, get to know why others did not seem to catch the same things as I did.

So perhaps I could see it from that perspective as well. See more dimensions of this.

I'm not so sure. Hallifax "cares for everyone in the collective" is pretty much its only redeeming feature. Without it, it wouldn't have anything that makes it gray. It already has far enough ties that it can very easily slip into an Orwellian nightmare.

Seems as though i'm one of the few people who's still happy with Gaudiguch. What we really need is some actual events going on in the city, and less sitting around the nexus arguing about the city leadership.

Oh it's there alright, but some of it is classified. And just because it's propaganda doesn't mean it isn't true (or at least the people spreading it think it is).

Gaudiguch:


*straight. face.*



@Kiradawea: I'm not so sure about that. The caste system is a social division that isn't so much evil than it is utilitarian. Sentinels are pretty Orwellian evil, sure, I'll give you that. I don't see many ambiguously evil scientists around except for Ileein, who talks far more evil/moral reprehension than he actually does.

Really, Hallifax strikes me more neutral-good than evil. If slightly more emotionally detached.

Well, naturally, my character has none of my doubts, he is pretty idealistic towards the policies of Hallifax.

Rose-tinted eyeglasses towards pretty much all of it.

Tweet:

How the hell did I manage to forget so many commands with only a weekends absence?

For the continuation of the massive derail on Hallifax morality occurring in the Tweets thread. Please! Save the forums' sanity!

Anyway, my thesis: in its own eyes, I think Hallifax is lawful good. In reality, I think it's lawful neutral with some ambiguously moral flashes, both some good and some evil, which is another definition of neutral anyway.

Hey guys. I created a new topic to continue this derail elsewhere so we don't drive everyone who just doesn't care (and the mods) insane.

Oh, look, we're here now. How nice. Did we fall on that nice lady with the red shoes?

Hallifax is shiny on the outside. Hallifax' actual morality takes a little effort to uproot.

In all honesty though, from an NPC point of view, Hallifax is a very oppressive society. As a player however, that's not fun to play in, which is why it's toned down. That said, Cririk's purple book is obviously directed at the lower castes as a work of propaganda to make them feel better about their predicament. People tend to produce better results if they're happy doing what they do, hence the whole collectivist propaganda culture. That doesn't change the fact that the Artists and Scientists are basically the Peers of Hallifax, and if you're not part of their clique (from a RP perspective) you really don't matter.