-bump-
Don't make me get the deadline out

Didn't Romertien already say that there's a duhmentor around? Could be a potential SKer.

With one Death Eater left, would this be a good time to roleclaim, or give out the information we've gathered so far?

Hrm. The problem with mass claims is that unlike my first assumption, there seems to be many roles based on really obscure characters, making it difficult to discern a false claim. But getting one townie cleared would at least help the town...

Alright, I'm judging from the silence that people are pretty stumped on how to proceed, or, are just engaging in Christmas Eve festivities, which is fine! Because I had the free time and thought I'd try to summarize things so far. After carefully going over the entire 26 pages worth of posts, I've compiled the following summaries: Warning, long post. Scroll to the bottom if you want my personal conclusions, but please read through what I've summarized before telling me I'm wrong.

1) The people left are:

Casilu (Claimed Fudge)
Dynami
Ileein (Claimed Roleblocker)
Feyrll
Diamondais
Phoebus
Ssaliss
Lilia
Gleip

2) We know that at the very least, we have the roles Dumbledore, Harry, Fudge, 1 DE, 1 Deatheater, and imho, 1 Peeves. That's just my little opinion though.

3) I will now summarize the days. Remember this is with the knowledge that Trinit was Moldie, Casilu is Fudge, Ats was Irish guy, Solanis was Snape, Caerulo was DE, Vendetta was harmless Ernie, and Jack was Vernon. Obviously keeping this in mind is important, because you can assume those on the 'good' side are generally sincere in their suspicions and intentions, while the 'bad' guys were mostly trying to steer attention away from themselves/their fellow DE and onto people they wanted to conveniently knock off during the day. I ALSO assume for the same of ease, that Trinit told the DE's who their fellows were. Wouldn't you, to avoid risking your fellow DEs turning on each other?


Day 1 Summary: Rika was found dead. Most likely killed by DE. ----------------

Lilia mentions there could be DA in game, votes no Lynch.
Phoebus randomvotes Casilu, later takes back.
Ssaliss sees Vendetta's roleclaim as a message to Deatheaters "Don't kill me I'm useless. Read: Why automatically assume Vendetta's speaking to DE to not be killed? Wouldn't a townie normally assume that it's a DE pretending to be harmless and go "Townies don't be suspicious of me?"
Ssaliss thinks Ministry is town, asks what happens if Order wins first, does Ministry still get a chance. Does not know if Harry is Order. READ: Probably not Harry
Trinit calls Gleip twice into suspicion - read: They are probably not together.
Ssaliss and Gleip debate Vendetta read: Probably not together
Casilu FOS Ssaliss
Dynami finds Gleip aggressive
Diamondais sides more with Gleip
Lilia makes reasonable support of Vendetta
Trinit says Lilia's 'no lynch' is scummy READ: LILIA PROBABLY NOT DE
Ileen Finds Gleip fishy

By end of the day 1:
Trinit, Gleip, Feyrll, Solanis, Ssaliss, Ileen voted Vendetta
Casilu voted Feyrll
Vendetta voted Solanis
Lilia - No lynch
Vendetta lynched, Dumbledore or Voldemore may have been in the 'voting' group. Irish ministers come to investigate the corpse, but get distracted by Peeves. read: Given Allectro's power, he probably investigated Vendetta that night and when his power activated to try and send the Irish ministers after Vendetta, Peeves intervened, distracting. Peeves may be roleblocker.

Day 2 Activity, both AtS and Casilu were attempted last night, Casilu was definitely targetted by DE, AtS was just 'near' the attacks-----------------------------------------------

Ssaliss and Lilia disregard Peeves.
Diamondais wonders if leads have minor protection. Read: Probably not one of the leads)
Phoebus says game is making her looney.
Diamondais and Phoebus does not want Fudge to claim.
Dynami super suspicious of Gleip.
Solanis reveals, votes Trinit
Dynami instantly votes Trinit
Ssaliss says he's very suspicious of Trinit, but delays committing.
Diamondais challenges Ssaliss's assertion that Trinit is friend. (Read: not on same side?)
Ileen votes Trinit
After Trinit claims, Diamondais is confused and Unvotes even though he never actually casted a vote. (Ploy?)
Ileen claims roleblocker
DIamondais finds # of roleblockers weird (Read: Probably not DE because he's basically implying the possibility that someone is bluffing)
Ssaliss votes Trinit but later unvotes and is 'very supportive' of Trinit due to his role and powers matching, Votes Gleip by end.
Caerulo FOS Gleip. Diamondais cuts him short and mentions Gleip's excuse. (Read: Diamondais and Caerulo probably not in cahoots).
Ileen agrees we should eventually look at Gleip
Phoebus FOS and VOTE Solanis, says she's very suspicious, even more suspicious after the claim.
Gleip returns, votes Trinit
Trinit bets $20 that Gleip and Solanis are DE read: definitely not on same side as Gleip
Diamondais wavers, wonders if both Solanis and Trinit are town.
Ssaliss pretty confidently defends Trinit as 'doctor' or protector.

Trinit lynched by: Solanis, Dynami, Ileen, Gleip, Casilu, one of whom is ‘Harry Potter’. Turned out to be Voldie who knew who all DE were, could kill someone every night.
Phoebus voted Solanis
Gleip voted by Ssaliss, Trinit, Caerulo, Jack

Day 3 Activity Vernon killed last night, no mention of whether it was DE or not. --------------------------------------------------------

Ssaliss finds Caerulo’s ‘gah’ pretty sketchy, but otherwise makes no comment.
Phoebus makes powerful suspicions on Solanis
Diamondais finds my vote random, comments twice on it. Read: Completely oblivious to how omgsuspiciouslytimed Caerulo’s vote was, or on Caerulo’s side?
Gleip votes Caerulo.
Ileein votes Caerulo.
Phoebus finds Caerulo ‘mildly suspicious’.
Dynami nudged into making uncontributing post.
Ssaliss: discusses possibly suspicious Solanis still.
Solanis goes bad Phoebus being all wishy washy, I accuse you next.
Phoebus goes you can’t bully me I’ll vote when I’m ready. Really doesn’t like the fact that Solanis –knew- who was Voldie.
Lilia and Diam believe Solanis is on ‘good’ side.
Phoebus says she’s feeling crazy by now. Also helpful enough to make list of ‘who isn’t/hasn’t been talking’. Says she would ‘I would love to look at someone else’ Read: Er, what about Caerulo?
Ssaliss says Caerulo definitely in his sights and he’ll vote for him soon. Votes when time limit is up.
Lilia pops in, adds lynching vote.
Ats finds Lilia’s pop in kind of suspicious.

Caerulo (7): Feyrll, Solanis, AllergictoSabres, Gleip, Ileein, Ssaliss, Lilia

Night 3, two DE left.
----------at night, both Ats and Solanis are killed off-----------------------

I split up my post to more clearly give my summary and then my conclusion. I'm also aware that this summary may make targets of certain people, but with just one DE left, I think we can stop tip-toeing as much.

My conclusion so far:

Most trustworthy: Gleip, Ileein. I can understand maybe possibly tossing one of your fellow DE under the bus for the sake of appearing benign and building trust, but to do it twice, early in the round when they still had room to shift suspicions onto other targets? I'm 99% willing to stake the game on the fact that they're at least not DE. Plus Trinit tried to throw Gleip under the bus like three times...bit too much if he was on the same side. They're also found more commonly on opposite sides of the people i -do- find suspicious.

Moderately trustworthy: Diamondais, Dynami, Lilia: They've done things that I don't necessary agree with all the time, but their posts don't raise that many flags and seem more like people just genuinely trying to do non-DE things. They have also been found on opposite sides of the people I do find suspicious.

Most suspicious: Phoebus and Ssaliss. Ssaliss has been pretty wishy washy, supportive of Gleip at inconvenient times, defensive of Trinit as not just innocent but possibly the doctor role, and in general seemed to be on the opposite sides of people that I do trust. Sure he voted for Caerulo, but only until the last minute. It seemed less of a "I'm being careful" and more "I'll vote because it's suspicious not to vote, but I'll wait until I have no choice". He's also found pretty often on the opposite sides of people I do trust.

Phoebus is also under this category for the different reason of being actively and unproductively suspicious. To find Caerulo 'mildly' suspicious and Solanis one big major turd of suspicious is understandable at a stretch, but at the end of the day, very frustrating. The one vote so far has been against Solanis, even though he was the man of the hour. Yes the fact he knew was very suspicious, but even if he was trying to prove something, it would've been better to try and let him throw other DE out into the open as opposed to snuffing a potentially powerful ally the moment he gave you Moldie on a platter. I don't think Phoebus is DE, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Dementor.

That is all for now, I may elaborate later.

I'm just going to toss Vote: Ssaliss, out there, to begin with.

Woops forgot to add Casilu under 'most trusted', that's a bit of a given. I've seen no reason so far to doubt Casilu's claim that he is Fudge.

Okay... So I say I'll be gone a bit over the holidays, and you immediately make a lengthy post pointing at me? Hmm. To answer most points here though:

First, regarding the whole "probably not together" parts: I doubt anyone in the ministry knows who the rest in the ministry are, so that's a rather funky thing to say. Heck, it might not even mean that they're both not DE/Order/whatever, since people debating could just be putting on a show. Plus, apparently the DE could only talk to Voldemort, and only at night, so it's not like they can coordinate during the day.

Second, regarding Casilus FOS against me, that was only because she misread what I wrote. Had she read it properly, she wouldn't have put the FoS on me.

I won't really say much about Peeves, since that's just all speculation. Personally I don't believe he exists, but there's nothing to support this.

Re: waiting to commit, I don't like jumping on the bandwagon unless I actually think they should be lynched (the vote for Gleip was the odd one out, and was my way of saying I wasn't getting in the middle of Solanis and Trinit). Being suspicious doesn't count in my book. Thus, I rarely vote until after they've gotten a chance to explain themselves. That's also the reason I didn't vote on Caerulo right away (both since that'd put him in ninja-lynch mode and because he hadn't posted anything). I didn't wait until I had to; the circumstances were identical when I gave him the time limit and when I voted for him.

Now then, to the Trinit situation...

First, Diamondais post asking why I thought he was a friendly was a misunderstanding of my previous post, where I said it was possible.
Second, I was also one of the people pressuring him to fully claim; he started out just claiming his powers, and didn't claim with his name unless I pressured him by voting for him. And yes, I bought into his claim (it seemed to match too well not to be true), which is why I was supportive of him.

And regarding my "defense"of him, that was actually me just pointing out your mistakes in your post when you claimed he was a roleblocker, and later your arguments that he didn't make sense as a doctor. Really, if I was a DE, I'd have voted for Solanis instead back then (it was 4 for Trinit and 3 for Solanis). I'd also have pushed more for Solanis.

Plus, I'm wishy-washy? I think the only time I unvoted was with Trinit, and as I said, I just believed his claim. Your whole post almost looks like you trying to frame me, since you consistently showed other people being suspicious of me, but never mention that the suspicions were all based on misunderstandings/misreadings. Plus, of course, you didn't mention yourself a single time in your post.

Well, I didn't mention myself in the entire post because I felt that would come across more self-serving than just leaving myself out. I feel my posts and contributions speak for themselves, and they're as open to anybody's investigation as theirs have been to mine.

As to my post itself, it wasn't meant as an entire lengthy 'frame' of you, Ssaliss. Not only was the post intended as a helpful discussion for the majority of the non-DE/dementor remaining, 'frame' implies I'm fabricating things to shove you out, when I, personally, see from the past events legit cause to be suspicious of you. Yes, I left out the misunderstandings or whatever that you pointed out in defense of whatever decisions/arguments you made, but the point wasn't the reason why another player countered you, but the fact they countered at all. I'm assuming that most DE will not go out of their way to argue with a fellow DE, and indeed at the very least, I never saw Trinit or Caerulo on opposite sides of you. The people I've seen against Trinit seem to fall more commonly on opposing sides to you. Also the timing wasn't 'immediately', I was gone the entire time from Caerulo's lynch to last night where I got back, it was as much a coincidence of timing as it was you having to leave for the holidays at all. There was no, "oh hey let's sneak around his back and accuse him when he's defenseless" ploy.

Could I be wrong? Sure.

Oh and to the Mod, I think the deadline should be heldback for the sake of people having their holiday shindigs to get to.

Well, it's rather hard to argue when you don't make many points. I feel I answered the points you raised in your posts, but you still haven't retracted your vote. Anything else I can say or explain that'd make you unvote?

That's my plan...

Of course, my own holiday shindigs will start to get in the way next week, so any 'deadline' may be quite relative.

You've explained enough to make me Vote: Ssaliss The first line earlier above where you pretty much state that Feyrll made that long post only to aim at you is false, considering Phoebus gets a lot of heat as well. The Phoebus paragraph is longer than yours even, so the end result is that you sound far too defensive.

Yes, she did, but in the end Feyrll voted for me. Thus the statement.

Yeah, holidays. I have a guest and the staff here are intent on fixing things in my flat. Rather annoying the fixing part.

(Feyrll, I'm female )

Also, I was fairly certain I did vote Trinit, hence unvoting. I read back, apparently I didn't, I have no idea why I thought I had.

*cough* Sorry. I'm really not good at genders.

FYI, I'm not going to be online much next week, so any deadline will tend towards later next week rather than earlier. Take your time!

Ah good, I no longer feel guilty about holidays/Annual Christmas Sickness stopping me from feeling like doing any thinking.

Shortish attempt at a post while I nurse my various holiday illnesses:
Ssaliss' defensiveness pinged a little on my suspicious-dar (suspicion-dar? suspi...ri-dar? man I don't even know), but the guy did just get voted for, so I'll not jump on it immediately. And, I got a lot of attention in Feyrll's post too, but I know I deserved it. Hell, I unwittingly argued on the side of the big bad for a whole day durp.

Oh hey, you said Valmar's name without getting totally killed, can we do that now, is that a thing? Was that ever a thing? Aaand this is where my ability to process information has shut down, time to go back to half-awake beef stew eating, perhaps trying to post at all was not a fab idea. HAPPY HOLIDAYS blguhhh

Re: Naming the V-Man, it's less likely to have an effect now that He's dead. Plus, his rolesheat didn't mention anything about anyone mentioning His name, so it could be that it never was an issue in the first place.

Doesn't mean I will start saying His name though.


Also, re: my defensiveness... it might've come off as a bit too strong, but Feyrlls post basically only mentioned the half of the posts that made me look bad. She mentioned people being suspicios of me, but not that it was because they misread. She mentioned me defending Trinit, but I really only commented on Feyrll saying that he calimed a roleblocker instead of a doctor.

Oh, and I'm up at a ski-resort with my parents at the moment, so I might only be able to check in once a day (if that) for a week now.