Right now when you survey an area, you can see something like this:



This tag appears in any area that is tied to an 'organization' of some sort: Capital Cities, Villages, Shallamurine Cathedral (enemied to Priestesses), Shallach (ur'dead), Illithoid Prison/Kephera Hives, perhaps other areas.

This tag indicates that, in this area, you may be attacked and slain without being declared. Likewise, you will lose considerably more experience than you normally do.

Problem:
- This tag applies universally to any enemy territory, just as the exp loss does.
- The exp loss is intended as a mechanic to dissuade from excessive raiding of Prime Plane territories tied to player-run organizations.
- The exp loss, as an added effect, hinders any attempts to bash in the upper-end areas: gorgogs, undervault, priestesses, shallach, etc. One death in these territories can put you behind hours of work. The problem is magnified by the mechanic that makes Avenger regard you as 'fresh meat'. The risk factor isn't a bad thing (on the contrary, it's great) - but when bashing Illithoid has the same experience-related risk of raiding Vortex... well, let's just say it's really inconsistent thinking.

Solution:
- Differentiate between the enemy territories, be they tied to denizens or players, i.e:


vs.


Both statuses should make you open to attack. However, only the former should give additional exp loss on death.

While we're on the subject of enemy territories, there's a lot of problems with Avenger in relations to these mechanics, but that's for another thread.

I can't even remember how many times I've lagged or DC'd while bashing gorgogs or illithoids and literally lost 2-3 times the essence I had just earned. Something like this would be so lovely. ):

This has been wanted for a very long time.

Even from before the increased penalties actually went into effect (starting just a few minutes after they were announced). This would be marvelous, and would actually re-open some of these hunting areas which people just won't bother with given the risk vs. reward ratio being so skewed (2 million essence risk for hunting kepherans is excessive!).

Losing a significantly large piece of experience - all I worked for and then some - in one small burst of lag or a wrong turn with a mapper or even manually IS rather frustrating. Why not just attribute experience loss in enemy territories to PvP-related deaths?

Because if you're going to fix something, you might as well go the entire way and remove the incentive for people to be dicks.

I think there should still be an increased exp loss, but not near as much as death in organizational enemy territory. Also, Avenger should still work if you're both enemies, since obviously they're not defending.

What! I defend gorgogs, illithoid, kephera, and anything else you may happen to be bashing. Hell, when I "raid" water and air it's not me raiding, I am just defending the creatures of the plane from you savage brutes.

There are a whole bunch of half-arsed solutions here that make enemy territory that is not org territory less horrible, and all of them together would be best, but some of them are like an absolute minimum for acceptable functionality. This is one of them. Implement please.

So when Neos complains about your griefing, you're only counter-griefing Neos for griefing the starsuckers? The Tide Lords and Ladies must be tyrants, offering extra rewards for Celestians to harm those poor leeches!

Meaningful constructive stuff: Maybe the "high-risk" areas could just be made more profitful to hunt if the enemy status experience loss wouldn't be entirely removed.

Hey, what's that? You're a Nekotai and you're also helping to get rid of those darn dirty Kephera? Congratulations, you just got some karma. Oh, you're a Celestian turning in those silly little Gorgogs? Maybe you deserve a little something extra.

Furien has a good idea. Implement please.

Yes. YES. Implement please. (This should be a petition.)

There are enough places around to bash that are not enemy territory. If you're choosing to bash in enemy territory, because of better gold, more bodies in one place, better karma for turn ins, etc. etc., then there should be some risks which accompany that reward.

I do wish that org-enemy territory and mob-enemy territory were different though, and that if one is attacked in the latter, they could defend themselves without risking suspect if they win.

2 million essence risk for hunting Kepherans is not "some risk" though. It is "greatly excessive" risk.

The two million is meant to be a deterrent to raiding, not to bashing / hunting / gold collecting.

Dropping the essence amount in these territories to normal, but leaving you openPK in Avenger's eyes, is an acceptable level of "some risk" I feel; you're still free game for getting jumped, more so than in other areas, because Avenger won't protect you.

I would be cool if you could protect yourself, but that's a topic for another day, I suppose.

Isn't there already a differentiation between Death to player and Death to Mob? Why not key it off of that, so that deaths to non-guard mobs (ie, anything DIVINEFIRE will stop) are treated as a normal death, and only deaths to players or guards are treated as enemy-territory. This obviously won't stop EVERYthing, but it'll mitigate the "lag let a kephera gank the out of me, now I'm back in Newton" factor.

That's why.

Worded better than I could have. Lets people defend their 'loyal' (Caoimhe, Tosha, Wydyr, etc) areas, while still leaving Kephera/Illithoid/Elfen/etc open for hunting.

Make xp loss for random enemy areas not be as high.

Make organizational (does this include planes?) the same or slightly less than now.

Fix avenger to realize the difference. If you come to attack people in kephera and you die, you can keep attacking them but they cant retaliate. You should be losing status for "taking it into your own hands" and regain it if you die. Avenger is more abusable than alot of other mechanics in the game. As it is some areas need to be normalized to not be a giant pot of abuse.

The huge XP loss for dying in enemy territory is fundamentally flawed anyway. The problem it was supposed to address was EXCESSIVE raiding of org territory. The solution to that problem was to slap an enormous disincentive to any sort of engagement (PvP or PvE) in enemy territory.

If a disincentive that grows in magnitude with the time/kills you accrue in enemy territory is out of the question (i.e. one that directly addresses the original problem), something that gets rid of the side effects to hunting would be pretty neat.

Bump for support! (and continued lack of notice/response)