Nope, that was no +Con bonuses. Just racial (and domoth), I didnt use platter, yellow, etc.

As of now (in defs without platter or yellow still):



(Yes, 25 dexterity)


If you want to evaluate faelings you have to compare them to something. Aslaran have more con than unspecced faeling (and caster spcs) with charisma, int, and dex all lower I believe, but faeling has no weaknesses, is far faster, and has a sipping bonus. The same can be made to compare them to mugwump.

But org spec races seem to have been made to be either comparable to something or entirely beyond it. Merian and Mugwump are similar, Viscanti and Igasho (yes igasho) are similar, elfen and faeling are just their own area of no flaws.

Quite positive I find Lothringen, Fillin on rwho from time to time. RP isn't an argument at all for any balancing mechanics.

You do know that without the Domoth I could easily still get that same health level with low magic since eating a Con Platter + Yellow would give me the same results. The domoths bonuses are weighted just like most other bonuses, so the same results can be gained via other means and not really change the nature of the discussion. You are also forgetting that the H/M/E artifact goes up to +15%, of which I possess.

My point is that you have to consider what levels of health are possible with all of the means we have of boosting health here. Faelings can get decently high levels of health in any class, and can push the same surge health levels as any other warrior because of their high intelligence. When it comes to the concern about low Faeling health, I feel some people are exaggerating the problem considering what is available to mitigate their Con as a concern.

Uh, yes, Domoth is a +con bonus. A significant one. Faelings have 9 con base, while Aslaran have 12. You've got a bonus that reduces the difference in the races to one point of con just right there, and you're going, "See, I have lots of health, all is well, woohoo!"

I am also not convinced that you have no other health bonuses at this point. I showed you the full list of things that it took for Talan to get to 6400 health, about 200 points off from you, so. You've got something funky going on in your numbers / claims still.

And my point in response to that is with those same bonuses, other races get much more benefit. Percentage bonuses give you more if you have a higher base. That's the nature of percentages. If you stack a lot of things up you can get your health up, sure. You're still always going to be more frail than another race with those exact same bonuses. You're not going to be able to take the same high-damage-output risks that you can with having a higher base pool.

If you're in no risk of the burst damage killing you, then you're right, the sip bonus is excellent. If you're in risk of the burst damage killing you (and with a lower health pool, there is always a higher risk), this means more hit & run, being far more cautious, etc.

Low health is definitely a downside. I feel that claiming otherwise is silly. Faelings have other bonuses and such which help refine where they are good. They are not good at tanking burst damage. Especially not in comparison to other races. However, they are not supposed to be. They are meant to be more frail. As I said, I feel it is quite possible for races to be focused in such ways, they do not need to be all-around good at everything under the sun.

Edit: And really, I am not arguing for buffs here. I am simply stating my opinion that spec races can be tailored to have certain focuses, because there are also a plethora of other racial options out there for people who want niche roles. Racials should be good at what the guild focuses on primarily, not necessarily good at everything the player might wish to do.

Stating, as Malarious does, that Faelings have "no flaws" is just something that I feel I have to call out as being rubbish, because it is.

I have never been burst killed as a faeling (I have been burst killed as Merian and Mugwump though). Not once has that happened. When you also add in the fact that Faelings have a level 3 sip bonus and level 1 herb recovery bonus, over 4.5k health has been enough for me to easily survive many burst damage situations in the various classes I have been in as a faeling.

If you want faelings to have the same Con as other spec races, then they also need to have the same malus and bonus in other areas as other spec races. Right now, the only real 2 weaknesses Faelings have are Con and Str, both of which can be mitigated to a decent degree with the various boosting buffs we have available to us in Lusternia. Other spec races have their own weaknesses like a sip malus, vulnerabilities to damage types, etc.

I would support your position if Faelings did not have a massive sip bonus (along with the other great bonuses faelings have), and the realm did not offer as many buffs to health as it presently does. Right now that is not the case, and as such Faelings can easily get their health to respectable levels while also having a sip bonus that gives them a sip greater than many races with a good bit more health.

Keep in mind that much of the damage in Lusternia scales with the maximum health of the person being attacked. Therefore having a somewhat lower health level + a massive sip bonus is more desirable than having a somewhat higher health level and a sip malus or vulnerabilities to certain common damage types.

Most of the damage scales very minimally though, and NPC damage does not really scale at all. Especially as they keep adding high-area hunting grounds, the latter is important (and I'm pretty sure I've been mentioning NPC burst damage quite consistently here as well). You know, the whole "hunting" part of the game.

I have to ask though; why the heck are you saying the part I bolded ("if you want Faelings to have the same con as other spec races")? Have I not said, over and over, that the entire point of my posting is that I feel Faelings are an example of a race that has a focus by having a malus and other benefits, which tells me that such can be done and is not impractical? And that I feel it's a good thing for spec races to have such, instead of being just all-around good at everything?

Or are you somehow interpreting that to mean "Faelings need a buff to have more con like other races" when I have said, even in the post you quoted, that is not so?

The only time I mentioned +con for Faelings was a tongue-in-cheek response to Othero when he claimed that all spec races should be all around good at everything, because I don't agree and I was using that as a prod to demonstrate why that was a silly argument. If you give Faelings +con, you're right, you'd have to take away their benefits in other areas. Then you end up with it being much more like Elfen, and we end up with spec races that are all quite similar to one another.

I won't disagree that the low health can be mitigated to a degree, especially with the Domoth Life blessing, but it's always going be less health than you'd have if you had a higher base pool and that does make quite a difference in how survivable things are. Further, you cannot always count on having Domoth blessings, and you have to life with the knowledge that any bonus you get is less effective for you than it is for others. A +10% health artifact costs the same as for someone with higher con, but gives less benefit. Same work for Tosha blessings, less benefit. So on, and so forth; it's part of the cost of having low health.

If you or others who are faelings are not asking for bonuses to con, then my mistake. I mistook your mention of faeling Con as being a weakness that you felt needed to be shored up, and was just pointing out that it is easy to shore up that weakness.

Also on your point about most damage scales minimally, that is only warrior, monks, and denizens. When it comes to the other types of damage that have magic as a source, the majority of them do scale with the health level of the target. So my focus on that concern was centered around the effects Faeling Con have on their PVP prospects.

The last statement you made is not universal. Some of us actually can survive damage quite well as a faeling in pvp and pve.

No, my mention throughout of it is that it's a weakness which we have and which allows us benefits in return.

It defines the race.

It gives the race focus.

I feel that this is a good thing. Nor have I seen others asking for Faeling buffs here, really, mostly just a lot of us throwing up our hands in exasperation when we're told that Faelings have no downsides / maluses. I'm just a bit sick of it at this point, hence why I've waded in.

I do not feel that every spec race has to be good at every little thing. I believe that it is possible for spec races to have maluses and bonuses which shape and define the race as a whole, with specializations that make it acceptable for the guild that it is in. This means that not every Viscanti really needs +cha, but the bard spec probably does.

I'd prefer to see discussions on a specialization by specialization basis rather than broad changes to the race as a whole. That's been the gist of my posting; that I do feel it's possible to have races with weaknesses (in Viscanti's case, low cha, especially if the sip penalty gets reduced and dex gets upped which I'm not too concerned about). I'm just concerned about lower sip penalty, increased dexterity, and increased charisma along with all the resists that the race would still have.

Edit: Just like Faelings can work to offset their lower health, Viscanti are able to offset their low charisma. It'll just never be as good as races which are more suited for those efforts, for either race.

Well, now that all that debating has passed, I present:

In summation: no, we're not asking for a Faeling buff. I know folk accept the low health as a package deal with the rest of the nice perks Faelings have. We're just stating that this mindset applies to Viscanti whose low charisma is a package deal with the resistance perks the rest of the race has.

Queue attention towards merians, trill/dracnari regens, and illithoid illdrain/statistic tweaking now, please.

Fillin is a guy who took his name from a bad joke. I don't know if I'd hold him up as any paragon of RP.

If we can accept the low health of Faelings because they have other things to balance it out, why can't we do the same with other races?

And we're just stating that we like the resists but no thank you, we'd rather trade them for competitive CHA. I'm glad we agree.

At which point the race loses its focus and just becomes another bland Elfen / Human statpack, if you take out resists and add in stats instead.

We've enough stat-pack races, imo.

From Sior. I'm just pointing out that it is obvious which races are doing it right and if you want to see the number of races used spread out, if you're honestly interested in getting rid of the blandness of everyone being human, more races do need to move in the direction that is faeling and human.

Just pointing out, Faelings have had the Life Domoth for a very long time and Humans have received a nerf already in this racial update. It kind of seems like they're moving in the direction of the other races already!

Darn, now I won't know what to reincarnate into.

Faelings already get a fairly significant buff so far, though (yet more speed). As do Aslaran. So number 2 and 4 in that list, as well as illithoid (whose numbers you always have to read keeping in mind that they're not allowed at all in several orgs) , furrikin and merian (to a lesser extent) of the races with intermediate numbers there all got buffs. Elfen aren't really affected by the changes (only indirectly by other races getting stronger/weaker), trill probably get chosen for rp reasons and the good influencing more often than their resists and their numbers might not change much if the currently suggested change were the final one.

So, aside from humans, the races high up in that list either get a rather nice buff or no/an insignificant nerf, while the ones who weren't played before (mugwumps excepted) are now even suckier. The only exceptions to the former are viscanti and lucidian; dracnari probably don't really get chosen for their resistances.

So far, it's mostly a 'nerf humans/buff mugwumps' change, which admittedly were two popular demands of players before, but with no addressing whatsoever of:

orclach 0%
krokani 0%
igasho 0% (second biggest loser and not even cute)
tae'dae 0% (biggest loser currently, but at least they're still cute)
taurian 0%
kephera 0%

If anything, the most popular races (Human and Faeling) are doing it wrong-- why play any other race when these two dominate in every way? Glad at least humans are getting a nerf.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ag...uthkey=CJvj5PQP

That should link you to my awesome spreadsheet with all the races for quick reference. Already took the changes made so far into account.