Umm... read the changes again, they put resistances back to 10%.

Oh. good!

Carry on.


(I was all proud of my rant too.)

The mob is you and Ixion? Faelings I feel were rather balanced as is and didn't need to be improved or nerfed, the speed adjustment would buff faelings so the talk of dropping them to lvl2 was to maintain the status quo, If you want to drop 1 Str and the sip bonus, then leave us the increased speed(lvl3), other wise leave us the Str and sip and drop the speed to 2, I think that's just fine, but don't do all of it.

The mob was definitely more that just Malarious and Ixion.

I merely don't buy the argument that SL faelings need more strength than they already have: the argument that aslaran tank better is very situational. Against anything that deals fire damage, I tank better as a faeling. I also tested Kephera on the test server, and I'd say that faeling was doing better there too, but not by much. This was with the reduced sip bonus, mind.

I agree that faeling should be level 2 bal to maintain the status quo, but perhaps reducing sip bonus from 3 to 2. Nothing done to strength.

Sorry, I didn't want to outright point out the Mag agenda to nerf faelings.

I never said Faelings need more str, not once did Xenthos or me say that, all I said was that if you're going to reduce STR and sip bonus, then leave speed at lvl3, otherwise leave it how it is and drop the speed to lvl2, I don't see why we should reduce the sip bonus considering the low con to begin with.

it seems common sense that faelings would tank better against fire damage than aslarans, that's aslarans weakness, but in every other regard aslarans would tank better than faelings so in general, I would say aslarans tank better, so I don't see the need to lower sip bonus. Same with kephera, if you're fighting against it's weakness, it should be tougher, but I bet if you're fighting against it's resistance, kephera would tank better hands down.

Faeling is a spec race for more than just warriors who get 2 more con to offset the low base -- casters get only +1 and bards get none. Losing the sip penalty would be a big hit for non-warriors who are already not benefiting much from the speed bonus. I think Sidd and Xenthos have it right. Reduce the speed bonus from the proposed changes, leaving it slightly less than what they currently have in the live game, and leave the rest alone.

I am still pretty down with just reducing balance to level 2 and giving back the other stuff. Lowering the sip just hurts all the wrong kinds of faelings.

As monk faeling, not specced, I tank better against kephera than I do as an aslaran. That's with the lvl 2 sip bonus. Hence why I said aslaran tank better more situational than in general. I realize that what I wrote in my previous post reads differently than what I meant.

I also seem to remember non-Magnagorans questioning faeling beyond Ixion, Malarious, and myself. I'm not saying "nerf faelings to hell" like some people are, but I do think people are under appreciating the sip bonus, even at level 2.

If there's an agenda, it is the Glom agenda to not change Faelings.

Anyway, as I said before, I think a huge reason for why Faelings are so often picked is because they are THE go to race for influencing. One way to alter that without nerfing Faelings would be to give other races various influencing boons, with the goal of making other races superior at certain influencing types than a Faeling. For example, at the same level of buffs, an Elfen would be better at Weakening influencing, Tae'Dae would be better at Charity, Trill at Seduction, Female Kephera at Intimidation and Furrikin at Empowerment. Each of those races would be better at Faeling at that specific influencing type, but Faeling would be better at influencing in general, creating an incentive to move away from Faelings for influencers.

And even so, toss out more influencing boosts. I think Influencing boosts in general are a good idea. They're nice to have, and doesn't really unbalance PvP in any way that I can see.

For a list of influencing boons I'd suggest

Aslaran: Empowerment and Weakening +1
Dracnari: Seduction +3. Village +1
Dwarf: Empowerment +2. Intimidation +1
Elfen: Weakening +3. Charity -1
Furrikin: Empowerment +3. Weakening -1
Igasho: Empowerment +1. Intimidation +1
Kephera: Intimidation +3. Empowerment -1
Krokani: Empowerment +1. Weakening +1
Loboshigaru: Intimidation +1
Lucidian: Weakening +3. Empowerment -2.
Merian: Weakening +2. Empowerment +2. Charity -3.
Mugwump: Empowerment +3
Orclach: Weakening +3. Intimidation +3. Village +2
Tae'dae: Charity +3
Taurian: Intimidation +2
Trill: Seduction +3 (from +2)

And really, remove some weaknesses from Mugwump and give Orclach a point of charisma. And even if you don't want that whole list, at the very least consider the original prospect, of making other races specialise in Influencing to be better at it at a specific area than Faeling.

Regarding faelings.. I don't see why the balance loss would be without the sip penalty loss.

If moved to level 2, previously faelings had a 15% bonus. It would be bumped -1% to 14%.

The sentiment is that faelings are okay as is (on the live game). They don't need an extra speed boost (like they would get from everything scaling up 5%->7%) so going down 1 level would keep them pretty much the same. They also don't really need to lose the sip penalty.

I didn't realize that trying to point out fallacies in other's statements was all the sudden 'having an agenda.'



for instance, I just compared tanking kephera as a aslaran EG against SL faeling EG and found them rather comparable, but I think aslaran out them in the end. I actually took less damage on average as an aslaran than I did as a faeling - about 100-200 less, and only sipped about 100 better (1200 - 1100) on average, also had a higher starting health as aslaran (500 more health overall), but I feel the lvl 3 sip bonus would bring them even closer to comparable as I was sipping much more often as a faeling than as an aslaran (would bring the average to 1300ish?) This being said, I also killed kephera on average about 1 swing faster than I do as SL faeling with the reduced str. So I feel the edge has to go to aslaran on tanking ability. It is comparable, and granted I was not testing as a ninjakari monk (I think we'd agree Night warriors are tankier overall than ninjakari) but I don't think the sip bonus is being exaggerated or under appreciated as to its effectiveness. I'll have to maintain my either or stance currently, reduce sip level to lvl2 or reduce speed to lvl2, but not both and leave Str as it is.


As far as influencing goes, I'm not a star influencer, to be fair, I can definitely tell my EG warrior is better at influencing/debating than when I was illithoid nekotai, and if the influencing boon is the case (not to mention massive ego gains for TK's), then it would be more prudent to strip CHA than balance speed or Str or even sip level, but people seem to be focused more on the later than the former, which I'll let you influencing types decide farther. I will say that non-SL faelings do have rather pitiful health (when you actually look at it and don't hide it behind wearing Life runes and such) and are pretty squishy.

Why would you take less damage as an aslaran unless kephera do cold damage?

I don't know, I've just been standing here letting this lone kephera warrior beat on me, and there's a noticeable decrease

Also, I just switched back to faeling and forgot Night (to lose SL spec) and my sipping has dropped to 1000-1100 and my health dropped from 5700 - 5000 (unsurged) I do still have the same defs (NK, garb etc) but just not the stats, for a more accurate comparision

Edit used prompt to see health rather than score, it's 5k, not 4.9k

I don't really see why you need to switch back and forth between races to test out such things, to be honest. It's mostly simple math. As for losing your spec race, now that's not going to do much since it was the spec that was being compared to aslaran largely. So if anyone deems shadowlord faelings too powerful, and given the current (low) impact of high strength and thus the higher importance of the speed bonus I would be one such person, it would probably be best to tailor the spec and not the whole race. However, I believe aslarans are too powerful in the melee field as is, too. The best solution in my eyes still is to make higher strength more important again. Just give 20+ strength enough of an impact to make people have to consider if they want to stay stuck at 18 or 19 strength at best for some additional speed. Same for intelligence, I suppose.

It's more as a defense to the sip bonus and why it's fine at lvl3 rather than lvl2, definitely tanking a lot better as aslaran than unspecced faeling.

Can we please move the faeling balance to at least level 2? Faeling never needed a buff, let alone one that affects the melee ones more.

As has been said lots of times, everyone is ok with this, just as long as the sip balance and str are left alone

No, what you've been saying is you're happy to exchange it. What I'm saying is that we have to drop it.

Why are we spending so much time arguing about Faeling, which most people agree is either fine or very nearly fine, when there are other races that most people agree are still getting brutally shafted, both before and after the changes?