So modify the tanking in such a way that it doesn't allow for such min-maxing to the point that it completely obviates disadvantages while taking full advantage of benefits (and in fact providing larger benefits to races with lower constitution, such as mechanically enforced outside-of-DMP damage reduction), but still provides a nice big damage barrier that provides equal benefit to all races. There are multiple ways to do so!

Note that I'm not asking for it to be done as part of the racial overhaul, but Barrier's pretty much the biggest issue with Faeling balance that gets cited here (see above: Faeling Mages). This does not mean to nerf Faelings. This means to fix the actual problem.

At this point, I think it's more sensible to explore adding an extra con point to shadowcaster and shadowsinger. It'll buffer the cut for them some, while faelings elsewhere with forcefield access, etc will remain relatively unaffected, as well as the shadowlord warrior spec.

PS, if we're going to make INT/DEX/STR matter more at the high ends again, we might want to cut back faeling dex some still.

PSS, forcefield can get left alone. If there's still concerns about faeling sip, I would suggest making to apply to healing potion only, if at all possible.

The last thing we need is to buff shadow faeling. They are perfectly fine (no, they're great, like Shuyin said) as they are.

No, it really can't.

Let's say you have 4000 health and 9000 ego.

You're hit with an attack that does 1000 base, +10%.

You take 1400 damage. If you do not have barrier up, you take 1400/4000 damage. If you do have barrier up, you take 1400/9000 damage. Someone who has 9000 health would have taken 1900 damage. Right from the get-go you have a 25% damage reduction on this attack, before DMP kicks in.

Then you consider that it completely counters the low-health aspect of any race, with no downsides excepting burnout if you lose it (which you can mitigate via artifacts, and getting it back is just waiting a bit of time).

Has it also been pointed out that the weakness to fire and magic make tae'dae explode at the first sight of fire/magical damage (basically, every caster guild in existance)? I take about 2k from unbuffed minorseconds (that's counting proofings and trans Magic). Why is a 'tanky' race stuck with heavy vulns to such common damage types anyway?

Shadowlords are fine now, but if you do take out the str, then they'll be pretty lame again.

The sip bonus is probably needed for every other faeling who isn't a SL, so I don't think it should go, but if it does, I'd like to ask for additional con for other faeling specs, like Rag said, since they need it.

Shadowcaster and shadowsinger =! shadowlord, which I thought I made pretty clear. If that's how you still feel, then eh... let's just to agree to disagree. Less post spam that way.



Forcefield is pretty important for races that actually need it to do any sort of bashing successfully (see esp., imperial merian). The burnout also comes with notable exp loss, which I believe the artifact doesn't mitigate.

Which would be why you would not remove it, but make it something that provides equal benefit to all; for example, a high broad DMP (equal to or better than Nightkiss/Drawdown) to everything, which would also make sense for a forcefield. In this way it gives everyone the same benefit, it does not completely bypass Constitution balancing and it does not provide damage reduction outside of DMP. It would also lose burnout. That's the option I favour, though I am still looking for other ideas as well.

Changing it does not mean removing it, or making it not-a-powerful-skill. It's just too excessive in this way. Damage reduction outside of DMP, along with complete mitigation of low con, at no loss in stats / mana / etc (such as other skills have ala Surge) is pretty easy to see as over-the-top.

It's also one of the driving reasons for the whole 'nerf Faeling' campaign, due to Faeling mages, despite the fact that the changes on Test aren't really going to limit the number of Faeling mages whatsoever. They're still going to have 19+ 'constitution' with a sip bonus and significant damage reduction and high charisma. The skill is essentially tailor-suited to be overpowered with certain races, and this is being used to fuel outcry to drive a nerf to the main specialization classes which do not have such an advantage.

They were saddled with the fire in the last racial thing, I think. a lot of the furred races were. It was a fairly uncommon and non-damaging source at the time, with the only real player abilities with it being Ignite, Pyre, pyrotox, and (maybe) Cosmicfire. Once pyromancers got released, and fire became one of the more common ones, this was never addressed, really. Also, I'm fairly certain our comments are going to be lost in the "NERF FAELING!" "NO U!" back and forth for the next year or two.

Yep. They got it because of their "speed increase", which never really clicked.

People did ask for +1 STR to shadowlord. I don't think additional strength is necessary, but I also think they shouldn't be losing strength.
Hiding under the "ignore it, because it's an 'us' vs' them' mindset" is NOT any better than an 'us' vs 'them' mindset. It's not true that everyone thinks faelings are fine right now. No, I don't think they're super OP. I think that if they were to be nerfed, it should be a reduction on the sip level. Nothing more, nothing less. The difference between lvl 3 sip and lvl 2 sip is not the end-all, be-all that some people make it out to be.



I can just as easily say the problem is with faelings because they are too good, so I wouldn't recommend that type of argument.
As far as my testing went, I'm not a knight, but a monk. Yes I have a life rune and a RoA, but on the test server, I'm confident that I could tank one additional kephera safely than I could as an aslaran.
Here's a thought: how do you judge tankiness? If you base it on the times one sips, you'll get different results than with how many creatures one can fight at a time or how many times one gets in the red.




See above. I'm not convinced that the difference between level 2 and level 3 sip is as significant or breaking as you're making it out to be.



I don't see how this relates to anything but a personal bias you have against me. Perhaps you operate under the assumption that it's acceptable to break monks in areas to "nerf" them rather than fix problems to appropriately nerf them, but if you don't understand the significance that this particular change would have without adjusting grapples, my suggestion would be for you to do some research, consider the consequences, and then choose to comment. Perhaps provide some argumentation and/or justification too.




I agree that faelings and SL faelings should not lose strength. I'd be willing to grant +1 con for -1 lvl sip.

+1 CON for -1 lvl sip would be fine

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I feel like most of the caster spec races could use reworking. Pretty much all of them have something that makes people say "meh". Imperial merian is too weak (though that's being addressed), Illuminated Dracnari lose strength that guardians would want to keep, Prismatic Lucidians lose con, Shadowcaster Faelings and High Elfen would make better mages than druids, and Master Viscanti would make better druids than mages.

I guess INT weighting changes would help with most of that, though.

I dunno, it costs 9 power and it probably won't work, since you don't have to wait for the instakill to start gusting them. It'd be pretty obvious what they're doing when you see the second p5.

I could have sworn forcefield was changed to scale to ego a while ago for exactly this reason.

EDIT: Tested it, and you're right after all. Weird. That means the optimal strategy for a forcefield user is to REDUCE the amount of maximum health he has. I agree it should probably be changed to scale damage to ego.

This is patently false. I had a long post quoting everything in this thread in relation to forcefield. I was going to post it, but it's long. If you want me to give the post numbers, I will, but the end result is:

People who in this thread have taken a nerf Faelings stance AND said that forcefield was their reason - 0.
People who in this thread have said they wish Fillin was nerfed because of Forcefield + his unique rune - 2.
People who in this thread want to nerf forcefield outright - 2.
People who in this thread want to nerf forcefield outright AND lurve Faelings - 2.

Seems like the opposite of what you said.

Tbh, forcefield probably does need reworking, but that's more an issue with forcefield and not faeling. There are other worthwhile reasons to change forcefield that isn't 'because of faelings'.

P.S. Sham's test does say a lot about the skill, heh.

Now that you've said that, read my suggestion. Because I still consider myself new here and I'm not sure what flies or doesn't as a suggestion, I was taking the template of 'if we're changing A, and it affects B, we can adjust B as well' style that you've used it and applied it here. Also, do back up your bias arguments, instead of spreading wild wild rumors!

That's fine if people think it needs a looking at, I was just trying to get away from the "Faelings are fine if you tweak forcefield" argument, plus the "People are persecuting Faelings because of forcefield" argument.

I still think Faelings are good with the speed reduction to level two (Effectively leaving them as they are) AS LONG AS other races are pushed up.

If the other races are left in the "only of the arrpeeeeees!" category, then Faelings would probably need more tweaking.

You people are hopeless. Maybe(And this is a ballpark guess here) the reason you have so many faelings is because most of the other races aren't worth playing? Something this revamp was supposed to be focused on.

Before you filled it with 15 pages of utterly worthless and fruitless garbage.