A while back, cosmic mobs underwent some training. When I say training, I don't mean "Oh, Gorgulu went on a diet and training regimen, and now he can bench 370." I mean "Raziela was locked in a room with Bruce Lee, Chow Yun Fat, Vin Diesel, Chuck Norris, and Batman, and wasn't allowed out until she could kill a man just by looking at his sister." Originally, this was done to curtail massively demoralizing, near constant raids grinding the victims into the ground and beyond. And yet, in exchange, all we're left with are pointless kick and run raids that not only do nothing substantial to the raided organization, but also don't earn anything for the raiding organization, and therefore only attract the greefers who are going to do these same kick and run raids day in and day out until the server collapses in on itself from the weight of their egos and collective smugness.

They are no less demoralizing, since the 'raiders' rarely stick around to actually fight, and even when they do, any loss they suffer was to lag, cheap moves, or 5-on-1-(plus-4) fights to hear their bragging. And they are frequent enough to keep the defending org on edge, but insubstantial enough that they do not cost the raider any resources, or any great investment in either time or skill.

My proposal is thus: Make raiding, REAL raiding, possible once more. I'll be outlining a specific idea below, but allow me to first explain my reasoning. By allowing raids to serve a purpose again, it gives a PvP outlet to those who are only participating in the current incarnation of raids for lack of anything better to do, and further encourages the orgs the current batch of 'raiders' are from to reel them in so that their opponents aren't on guard for an upcoming raid, and so that resources will not be lost during the kick and run ventures to maximize the efficiency of the real offensives. Further, it would allow the down orgs to strike back in a meaningful way to those keeping them that way without resorting to counter-LOLGREEFing.

My ideas will be explained based on the following assumption which is not to be taken as an actual measurement, but as a figurative one for descriptive purposes only: The average strength of a current SuperMob is roughly equivalent to level 250. The average strength of the smob guards is roughly level 90.

First:
o Reduce the strength of Raziela and Gorgulu to 130. These are the "loners"
o Reduce the strength of Elohora, Luciphage, Lhiannan, Albion, one sphere, and one fleshpot to 150. These are the "leaders"
o Reduce the strength of all remaining smobs to 120. These are the "unionists"
o Allow Hai'Gloh Zemordia to affect Gaudiguch and Hallifax in addition to New Celest and Magnagora
o Allow a fiery sphere or an airy sphere to be substituted for the watery sphere or earthen sphere in the Xion Initiative (Or whatever the hell they are)

Then:
o When a Supernal/DemonLord/Avatar/Sphere/Fleshpot is killed, the skills associated with them can no longer be used, pacts are broken, as per usual. The guard mobs on the plane (the ones naturally at the Smobs, not those summoned via the NEXUS commands) are increased to 120.
o When one of the above is turned in via the org conflict-quests, the losses to supplicants/spikes/flames/spirits/flesh/facets occur, and continue to accumulate as normal
o When one of the above is resurrected, they are immortal for 168 hours. This is one week.
o When one of the above is resurrected AFTER being turned in, their strength levels are increased to 255 for leaders, 225 for loners, or 215 for unionists.
o If one of the above respawns normally, it is at 5 effective levels above where it was before. Pacts are still broken, and the resurrection costs a bit of power that cannot be mitigated.
o If at any point all four Supernals or Demon Lords are slain, a portal to their leader opens at Raziela or Nifelhema's creche, respectively leading to the Corridor of Light/Halls of Damnation.
o If at any point Lucifage or Elohora are slain, a portal opens at their creche that leads to the Megalith/Pool of Stars, respectively.
o Both sets of portals are one-way, just like using a Supernal/DL would be.
o Both sets persist until the condition that created them no longer exists.
o Unionists will assist each other in a chain, as per usual, except for the spheres and fleshpots, who make up for this via the sheer number that need to be slain.

After each week:
o All Smobs are reduced in strength by 5 ECL.
o All guards are set to 90 again.
o If any Smob is reduced to less than 100, another guard is spawned there who will not return if slain.
o If any Smob would be reduced to less than 50, they become immortal for that week, and their strength returns to 150 for leaders, 130 for loners, and 120 for unionists.


I know this sounds incredibly complex, but the basic premise is this: Killing a cosmic/ethereal smob SHOULD be possible under reasonable circumstances, at reasonable intervals. To facilitate this, they would be reduced in strength sharply initially and then gradually afterwards. If turned in, the mob in question returns strong enough to be quite difficult to take down with a group smaller than is currently needed. If not, it respawns on its own at the same power level or slightly higher. At their weakest, it will still take more than one person to slay a supermob, but if left alone, they will eventually be able to be slain by a group as small as three or four. Most of the time, it should take about 10 to reasonably complete a raid in which all of the opposing mobs are converted.

Any thoughts, corrections, or input are welcome, as I would like to see constructive discussion in this topic.

Lhiannan > Gwyllgi.

so noted

How does this do anything about the grind of kick-and-run refuse-to-fight raiders? I don't see anything in it that even attempts to address those, even though that was one of the main reasons you cited to start this. Unless you're speculating that making raids-that-matter possible but not constantly, that'll make those people all satisfied with those raids and disinclined to do the other kind. Which would be nice, and I'd also like it if sugar-free lollipops grew on trees. But I'd be happier with a proposal that actually attempts to address that part, too.

Maybe not necessarily those people, but it would hopefully make other people in the org less likely to tolerate it, since enough of that crops up and the victims are just going to gank their smobs.

if people hadn't whined so much about fairness and how utterly sad that combat, conflict, and the idea that life isn't fair made them, the changes would't have happened.


discuss amongst yourselves.

Alternatively, don't, at least not in this thread.

And change that avatar.

@Aerotan: it tends to not work like that. People aren't really bothered by what happens to other orgs since it's not as easy to see the effects when you're not on the wrong end of it. And retaliation isn't really any more of a viable form of response than it is now.

How about when you start combat with a cosmic mob, if you don't finish it off, once it sleeps and heals, it ICly runs off to a supermob because there are bad people out there and supermobs are the safest place, or because its their duty to protect their leaders or whatever. OOCly, another guard will be created with the mob until slain, but there will still be the same amount of mobs respawning floating around. That way, if you start fighting something you make sure you finish it, or killing a supermob becomes that much harder. Might do a little to discourage kick and runs, I dunno.

Edit: Also a little weak to metagaming if you're willing to punch your own mobs. Perhaps measures could be taken to prevent that.

Could just have the weaker mobs lock you in the room with them if you hit one.

Think about Pokemon, when you encounter a wild one:

"Couldn't get away!"

The problem is, though, that it's already nigh-impossible to do anything important during a raid. Unless the defenders are dumb/desperate enough to throw up discretionaries, and then, woo hoo, you made them use up 500 power. And? If they're not willing to attack the Smob with two guards, they're not going to try when it has three, four, five, a dozen.

Are there any ideas to reinforce this one to actively discourage kick-and-run raids while still promoting, you know, the real raids that are discouragingly difficult?

EDIT: They'll just switch from kicking one mob and running around for an hour to killing one mob and doing the same. Which is just as irritating and pointless.

If you don't like it, stop defending.

I mean, sure it's your RP, but it's also your fun factor to consider. You will never be able to stop or otherwise mitigate kick and run raids short of griefing the hit-and-runner into the ground or using a cubix to give chase. That's really all there is to it.

Hard to chase orgbixes.

Well, there's always distortion. Then it's just a question of 'Do I really care about using 500 power to stop Dysolis from being a complete prat?'

This. 100% this, especially the first.

On the topic of Smobs.. we need to give a pass over them. There needs to be a way to 'win' - and sadly, as long as certain people insist that this or that is griefing, well, a lot of things are off limits. Griefing has never been something that I have ever had an issue with experiencing or doling out, but I know I'm in an incredibly tiny, heartless majority. For the rest of you, a modicum of decorum is obviously the standard - in which case, I ask you..

Can you propose to me a system that is the least vulnerable to the human elements of the following:

1. time : I elaborate - 2AM raids, the superdemisquad at 4 AM spanking your cosmic plane or ethereal avatars, and etc.
2. population : Requiring the amount of people to kill an smob is the only reason Hallifax has yet to try. Moreover, this kind of system cannot fall prey to 'zerging' - how do you do that?
3. grind : it cannot avoid being repetitive, but it can avoid unnecessarily large waits, steps, respawn times, and.. well..
4. misery : It cannot threaten player retention on the losing side, nor should it be used an abject spear of grief to drive in to the hearts of the innocent.

It needs to find a space between 'desirable to go after' and 'impossible to keep up 24/7'. I honestly wish conflict quests were more prominent, accessible, and had a 'you win!' kind of message.

Hell.. it almost makes me wish for landmarks.

Captchas.

Orgbixes shouldn't work on planes you're enemied to.

I could go for this. Granted, I don't own an orgbix (and frankly do not think they should exist).

I don't own one and don't think they should exist, either, but I thought if I said, "Orgbixes were a mistake in the first place." I'd just be called a troll.

Imposing enemied plane limitations would at least eliminate a good portion of the griefing. Everyone and their mother seems to have an orgbix nowadays, whereas cubixes are still a bit more limited. Also with a cubix, people can set up in limbo to gank you. Orgbixes you're safe.

Shamarah just brings us with his medallion, or we borrow any one of two or three cubixes. In fact, we're cutting the middle man and somebody is getting a cubix soon for themselves - unless he was just joking.

I think you need to occupy raiders with a goal instead of mindless antagonization of the defenders so much that they feel 'obligated' (how they feel obligated to defend is beyond me) to defend.. so they come up a die. The big problem here is, ultimately, the lack of PK opportunity. There's no other way to get people to engage you besides the guilt of loyal mobs getting shanked. This is the only way an org can draw out another org for protracted warfare, besides the occasional domoth or village. Between those times, we're kind of sitting doing nothing besides aetherbashing, some RP, and the eventual "let's go chop up Vortex/Nil/Celestia/Continuum (god who would attack continuum?)" proposition.

More than that, killing mobs is about the only way to 'hurt' an org.. and even that is a pathetic, impotent method to do so.

Alternative Idea:

Supermobs are unchanged, for now. They are unrelated to this suggestion.

Celestia/Nil:
-Empowering an angel/demon makes it get bigger. imp-> fiend-> demon -> archdemon or cherub-> deva-> angel-> archangel.
-Killing an angel/demon causes it to respawn as the next smaller step. It does not drain power.
-If there are less than 30 angels/demons on either plane, cherubs/imps will spawn at the supermobs up to this total.
-More than 30 angels/demons can be had by converting fae into cherub/imps or by converting demons/angels into their counterparts.
-Naturally spawning cherubs/imps will not move from the supernal/demon lord. Ones made from fae will.
-Every 5 lusternian days, the angels/demons that are alive generate power proportional to their current size. 1/2/3/4 power respectively.
-Killing angels/demons leaves a note in the Celestine/Nihilist guild logs.

Vortex:
-The wads from fleshpots are no longer fed to vortex creatures. Instead, they are used to create them.
-Illuminati can use FLESHCALL to create a vortex creature on vortex using wads instead of flesh.
-Flesh cannot be used to creature permenant vortex creatures, nor can wads be used to make player loyal creatures.
-Morribles cannot be created away from the Fleshpots, and only two can exist at each fleshpot, as it is now.
-These created creatures are not loyal to the creator, but to vortex. Killing these creatures does not drain power.
-These created vortex creatures do not respawn when killed. They can only be replaced by an illuminati creating new ones.
-Every 5 lusternian days, the vortex creatures generate power proportional to the amount of wads used to make them. 2 power per 1 wad.
-This includes morribles, which gives Gaudiguch some "free" power. This is intentional, as vortex creatures are the hardest to use.
-Bringing fae to Vortex generates power as it does now and does not spawn any sort of creature like it does on Celestia/Nil.
-Killing vortex creatures leaves a note in the Illuminati logs.

Continuum:
-Polyhedrons on Continuum no longer drain power when killed. They respawn in an inactive state, but only at the bloodstone sphere.
-Upon first spawning, polyhedrons are "inactive" and remain as such until activated by receiving a transphenorex crystal.
-Upon being activated, the polyhedron will instantly leave the room and begin to move around Continuum.
-No activated polyhedron, aside from hexahedrons, will enter the sphere rooms or the Matrix room below the opal sphere.
-Hexahedrons will wander around until they find a sphere with less than 2 hexahedrons already. Once they find one, they stay put.
-Polyhedrons advance from tetrahedron-> octahedron-> dodecahedron-> icosahedron. Hexahedrons are not created through this process.
-Every weave, the activated polyhedrons generate power equal to half the number of faces they have; 2, 3, 4, 6 or 10 respectively.
-Inactive polyhedrons do not generate any power, do not move away from the spheres and do not fight back when attacked.
-Killing a polyhedron deactivates it. It will respawn as an inactive polyhedron at the bloodstone sphere.
-Killing polyhedrons, active or not, leaves a note in the Institute logs. This note mentions if it was active or not.

Ethereal:
-Killing fae on either plane does not drain power anymore. They also do not respawn, mechanically speaking, once converted.
-Dead fae that are not revived in the well respawn in faethorn as neutrals with a random plane that they want to be on.
-Fae brought to Ethereal Glomdoring or Ethereal Serenwilde will spawn an essence creature in addition to hanging around the plane.
-Revived fae that have been converted already will return to the plane they are loyal to. Faethorn fae go to your hands as per now.
-Every weave, fae generate 1 power each. There is no cap on the total number of fae you can have at once.
-Faethorn spawns the current number of fae on the current schedule. Only fae that want to go to an ethereal plane can be converted there.
-Killing converted fae leaves a note in the Moondancer/Shadowdancer logs. Both get notes for killed faethorn fae.