QUOTE (Xenthos @ Dec 5 2010, 08:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I actually have to disagree with the whole stance that you can just 'walk away' from it, actually. I'm just going to use myself as an example; I personally am not much of a combatant, I do not usually join in on the raids (unless something has just happened and we are trying to send A Message) and often leave when it's clearly overkill.
For myself, I do feel an obligation to show up when there's something going on (whether it be Glomdoring, EthGlom, or Faethorn these days). Perhaps not necessarily in terms of throwing myself at the raiders over and over, but in terms of supporting the people who I do spend most of my time with. Keep in mind that when you're raided and losing, tempers flare, frustration builds, and people do not always tend to act... rationally. Little mini drama bombs go off at random intervals and it makes a 'bad' situation worse, and I kind of feel like I am obligated to be there and try to convince people not to run off like chickens, just to get butchered and ratchet up the frustration-end more.
Beyond that, if you want to stick to your RP guns, you have to defend. You can pretend to be AFK or QQ, but that's (to me) not a really great option; I don't feel like you should address in-game issues by QQing, because you're just leaving others to pick up the pieces in your stead. While you may say that you don't have to deal with it, it's not really any more fair to push it on someone else's shoulders either.
The RP angle is easier to push aside, definitely; for me, the biggest one is in terms of the actual people involved. I do feel as if saying "But you are not FORCED" to defend is silly, because forces do exist. They may have differing strengths depending on the person and their reasons, but first and foremost this is meant to be a social game and where you have a social game you do have pressures to behave in certain ways.
Lol. I agree with Xenthos!For myself, I do feel an obligation to show up when there's something going on (whether it be Glomdoring, EthGlom, or Faethorn these days). Perhaps not necessarily in terms of throwing myself at the raiders over and over, but in terms of supporting the people who I do spend most of my time with. Keep in mind that when you're raided and losing, tempers flare, frustration builds, and people do not always tend to act... rationally. Little mini drama bombs go off at random intervals and it makes a 'bad' situation worse, and I kind of feel like I am obligated to be there and try to convince people not to run off like chickens, just to get butchered and ratchet up the frustration-end more.
Beyond that, if you want to stick to your RP guns, you have to defend. You can pretend to be AFK or QQ, but that's (to me) not a really great option; I don't feel like you should address in-game issues by QQing, because you're just leaving others to pick up the pieces in your stead. While you may say that you don't have to deal with it, it's not really any more fair to push it on someone else's shoulders either.
The RP angle is easier to push aside, definitely; for me, the biggest one is in terms of the actual people involved. I do feel as if saying "But you are not FORCED" to defend is silly, because forces do exist. They may have differing strengths depending on the person and their reasons, but first and foremost this is meant to be a social game and where you have a social game you do have pressures to behave in certain ways.
To those who are saying 'go qq or ignore raiders until they leave' I have to say 'wow'. Furien, of all people? Like a few week ago you and I had an ooc talk in tells about how Glomdoring goes overboard with the raids. You had an entirely different stance. So why the change of heart?
I'm another one of those players (like Iasmos) that would receive a lot of flak for refusing to defend and trust me, if I establish a trend of logging out when there's a raid, it will be noticed and thrown in my face at some point. I'd rather not lose the faith of the friends and players I associate with in Celest. There is a sense of obligation that comes with the position you're in. That said, I also enjoy raiding and being raided because I think its fun.
I will back off when it's too much though.QUOTE (Kiradawea @ Dec 5 2010, 09:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought that for the envoy system to work, you needed envoys?
Okay... a bit low perhaps, but still funny... right?
Okay... a bit low perhaps, but still funny... right?
Now that I'm back to my old knighty ways and in Celest, which, despite its prior reputation, I am finding helpful, enjoyable, and fun? Yes, that made me giggle.
I mean, sure, the whole argument of "you didn't have an envoy to stop the skillset from being destroyed" is sort of like, "you weren't home to stop me, so I burnt your house down. Your bad!"
But, no longer my problem. I'm more likely to be fighting pyros than fighting with them in the current climate. It still strikes me as a shame however.
QUOTE (Malicia @ Dec 5 2010, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Lol. I agree with Xenthos!
To those who are saying 'go qq or ignore raiders until they leave' I have to say 'wow'. Furien, of all people? Like a few week ago you and I had an ooc talk in tells about how Glomdoring goes overboard with the raids. You had an entirely different stance. So why the change of heart?
To those who are saying 'go qq or ignore raiders until they leave' I have to say 'wow'. Furien, of all people? Like a few week ago you and I had an ooc talk in tells about how Glomdoring goes overboard with the raids. You had an entirely different stance. So why the change of heart?
They jumped on to a winning team and are enjoying routinely steping on outgunned and outmanned semi-combatants, naturally!
QUOTE
I'm another one of those players (like Iasmos) that would receive a lot of flak for refusing to defend and trust me, if I establish a trend of logging out when there's a raid, it will be noticed and thrown in my face at some point. I'd rather not lose the faith of the friends and players I associate with in Celest. There is a sense of obligation that comes with the position you're in. That said, I also enjoy raiding and being raided because I think its fun. I will back off when it's too much though.
I will back off when it's too much though.I will forever be impressed with the people who will walk, relatively uncomplaining, in to a routine deathtrap. Perhaps because I start off on the edge of raging some days, and generally go down hill as I get more fatigued. Then again, I never actually do anything drastic when I'm flipped out either.
QUOTE (Rainydays @ Dec 5 2010, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They jumped on to a winning team and are enjoying routinely steping on outgunned and outmanned semi-combatants, naturally!
I believe this is an unfair representation of anybody in Hallifax. In the end, I believe any of us are just, for once, looking for the refreshing instance of actually not only being the aggressor, but having a cohesive team with which to engage in combat alongside. I will tell you that it isn't killing the under-staffed Gaudiguch citizens that makes me enjoy the raids in the past two weeks, but the fact that, for once, I'm actually getting to fight.
EDIT: I joined Hallifax so I could be in a stable city that Aoife had interest in (since she insisted on being in the same citizenship org) that had a reputation for keeping what drama it might have off of CT or the boards. Oh, and I really liked Researcher RP and themes in their skills.
QUOTE (Malicia @ Dec 5 2010, 06:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
To those who are saying 'go qq or ignore raiders until they leave' I have to say 'wow'. Furien, of all people? Like a few week ago you and I had an ooc talk in tells about how Glomdoring goes overboard with the raids. You had an entirely different stance. So why the change of heart?
I'm not meaning to advocate logging out.
Depending on the situation, you just can't feasibly eject the attackers from your territory. Then your hands are just tied and your best option is to act to preserve your organization's morale by not charging to your death. Logging out only becomes an 'option' when you're dealing with an atmosphere so drenched in constant conflict that it becomes a 'toxic atmosphere', and we all know the kinds of attention that draws. Even back during our discussion, I was so frustrated that I really felt like just QQing and taking a break in the aftermath of the raid. There was nothing I could do to make the outcome any different, as much as people would have liked me to. What can you do, then? Soldier on, the the 972nd time, knowing that things may very well never change?As for the raids; Glomdoring still goes overboard with the raids at times, I've seen the same a few times with Hallifax. I figure I'll be abstaining from any real 'raiding' for a few days since Caerulo and others have spoken up.
Edit: Akui? Really? You're in no position to say why I do what I do. I haven't touched Gaudiguch in three or four months, as far as playing in the organization goes.
I think having someone to find a silver lining no matter what the result, and patient enough to give direction/help to total combat newbies is hugely important to mitigating how badly the effects of a raid are felt/taken.
I know having people in Hallifax saying things like, "Ok we died a lot, but well done for doing X, we need to be better at doing Y, and Z is how we're going to do it. Let's remember that for next time." and a lot of other small steps were a big factor in encouaging me to get more involved with combat, and for changing the city from being the 'raidee' to becoming the 'raider'.
Kick-and-run raids are a different kettle of fish then of course, but in all the raids I've been on with Hallifax, we have gone with the intention to stay and fight. (aside from that one quick one where we needed a Fire Lord to get our arena)
Positive thoughts, positive action, positive results, people!
I know having people in Hallifax saying things like, "Ok we died a lot, but well done for doing X, we need to be better at doing Y, and Z is how we're going to do it. Let's remember that for next time." and a lot of other small steps were a big factor in encouaging me to get more involved with combat, and for changing the city from being the 'raidee' to becoming the 'raider'.
Kick-and-run raids are a different kettle of fish then of course, but in all the raids I've been on with Hallifax, we have gone with the intention to stay and fight. (aside from that one quick one where we needed a Fire Lord to get our arena)
Positive thoughts, positive action, positive results, people!
QUOTE (Furien @ Dec 5 2010, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm not meaning to advocate logging out. Depending on the situation, you just can't feasibly eject the attackers from your territory. Then your hands are just tied and your best option is to act to preserve your organization's morale by not charging to your death. Logging out only becomes an 'option' when you're dealing with an atmosphere so drenched in constant conflict that it becomes a 'toxic atmosphere', and we all know the kinds of attention that draws. Even back during our discussion, I was so frustrated that I really felt like just QQing and taking a break in the aftermath of the raid. There was nothing I could do to make the outcome any different, as much as people would have liked me to. What can you do, then? Soldier on, the the 972nd time, knowing that things may very well never change?
As for the raids; Glomdoring still goes overboard with the raids at times, I've seen the same a few times with Hallifax. I figure I'll be abstaining from any real 'raiding' for a few days since Caerulo and others have spoken up.
Depending on the situation, you just can't feasibly eject the attackers from your territory. Then your hands are just tied and your best option is to act to preserve your organization's morale by not charging to your death. Logging out only becomes an 'option' when you're dealing with an atmosphere so drenched in constant conflict that it becomes a 'toxic atmosphere', and we all know the kinds of attention that draws. Even back during our discussion, I was so frustrated that I really felt like just QQing and taking a break in the aftermath of the raid. There was nothing I could do to make the outcome any different, as much as people would have liked me to. What can you do, then? Soldier on, the the 972nd time, knowing that things may very well never change?As for the raids; Glomdoring still goes overboard with the raids at times, I've seen the same a few times with Hallifax. I figure I'll be abstaining from any real 'raiding' for a few days since Caerulo and others have spoken up.
On average, give me mag raids any day. I know they can go overbroard too, but it doesn't seem to be quite as often. I'm sure that's a function of circumstance more than playerbase.
QUOTE
Edit: Akui? Really? You're in no position to say why I do what I do. I haven't touched Gaudiguch in three or four months, as far as playing in the organization goes.
Regardless of who they are, I have expressed, and will continue to express the same general sentiment towards anyone in a winning org who seems to be on the side of "yes, we're smashing the same four people in to the ground every night, but I want to do it HARDER." My snide angst does not see in terms of org colour.
