Aww. From what little I do know, it seems you've done a pretty good job, it's just missing whatever special dazzle the Researchers have.

I just want to assure everyone that the Institute has not told me I can't do anything. It's all second, or third hand information. The only problem is, that from my character's perspective, these people speak with authority, and she trusts them implicitly. So I'm having to wait until she gets fed up enough to do something about it on her own, which will happen soon, I promise.

Edit @Elostian: It's not your fault that in my 5+ years of playing IRE, I've never once interacted with a Divine in a meaningful way. I've just gotten used to the Gods doing their thing, and me doing mine. No one ever told Tulemrah just what Elostian's role in the guild is supposed to be. That's something else I'll be rectifying soon.

Since I have no idea about this IC, nothing will continue to happen on my end. Sorry. The Almighty IC-OOC Barrier (Blessed Be Her Name, May She Live A Thousand Years) is a cruel mistress.

Take nobody's word for it™

I actually completely respect this. Don't worry, I'll be initiating something once I'm done with my current project.

Yay!

My previously-written Aeromancers thing! I kept it in notepad, just in case:

When the Institute came out, the Aeromancers were hit hard in terms of members who were there for the guild's roleplaying identity (not everyone left, but a big, visible chunk did). We were scholarly! We were an institute of higher learning! We had a fairly rich and varied membership, and then the guardians came out, and suddenly oh our whole guild leadership just jumped ship (and were elected as the Institute's new leadership lolol thanks guys. Bitter? Who's bitter?) and we were scrambling to find out what to do. We still can't really get a cohesive identity together; we effectively became Hallifax's leftovers guild.

I try to get along with the philosophy stuff, but my character is pretty strictly an artist, and anyone who's spent a significant amount of time talking to her has probably noticed that she struggles to grasp philosophical concepts past the very basics. I'll admit the latter part isn't 100% my choice for her; it's actually due to the fact that I have some mild learning disabilities IRL and it's a real struggle of my own to try to learn new stuff for this, so I have no choice but to reflect that in my character. I've gotten some crap in the past about not being completely into the philosophy thing, and it's a little upsetting, because I'd love to be able to go all out with it and really get into it, but due to real, actual problems I have as a person, it's very, very hard for me. I promise I'm trying.

If you recognize philosophy as something your character can't get into, then you should probably leave her out of it. I know that sounds harsh, but I don't mean it in a bad way. Tulemrah is a bureaucrat, pure and simple. She knows she has no place designing an artistic program without the input of actual artists. If she ever gets some free time, she might do some sciency stuff, but she'll stay out of art completely. So, find the areas Phoebus can contribute to, and stick to that. You're good at finding flaws other people might not notice, you have good artistic ideas, you're a politician, etc. I don't think anyone knows this, but Tulemrah doesn't even consider herself a full Aeromage, since she never passed those last two exams. But she does realize that she is an effective administrator and bureaucrat, who can take other people's ideas and put them together in a way that makes sense. I tell people all the time, "I wouldn't know, I'm just a bureaucrat." No one's going to be down on you if you say you're not very good at philosophy. The problem comes when you try to keep other people from expanding in that area. I'm not going to design a program that forces people to understand complicated philosophical ideas, except maybe the philosophy sphere. I honestly don't think you'll have any problem with the program I have in mind.

Bah! I'm rambling again! I hope that made sense.

Probably the best thing to ever come out of the Researchers. *nodnod*

(I'm crossing this from the other thread since it didn't get moved here.) And by happenstance, we happen to have a perfect example of this brought to our attention via the bardics just today, and a great example of what I mean about how the Aeromancers could absolutely be engineers, despite Furien's concerns.

Sadly I don't even think she'd have a problem with what I had in mind in terms of incorperating philosophy in all paths, I am just really bad in conveying what I mean and then grow frustrated and become a total idiot (as opposed to mainly an idiot).

I don't see why experiments couldn't be carried out in regards to weather either. Fine, okay, you probably couldn't convince anyone to ever look at the weather code and make it do something for you, but we do have a nifty skill called Illusions for the beginnings of it, and eventually a Divine might get behind your idea and help out in other ways if any are available. You don't need to look so far ahead as be able to influence the weather fully through the mechanics behind the game, but instead show your knowledge of patterns, forms, and distribution of the weather events.

I think Phoebus mentioned that the Aeros have stuff in their GH descs that's for weather, perhaps one day they can gain an artifact that when you probe it you can see what types of adverse weather is affecting which area or.. something.

My brain is being rather fried by map making processes and writing about social/economic inequality in Germany. Sorry if that is just not clear at all.

Anyone have any ideas for what to call people who have earned the real world equivalent of a Master in Arts, without it sounding like Master Artist?

I feel really bad that I can't really aide Tulemrah and Phoebus much. I'm kind of in-over-my-head with other things (Politics! Opera House! RP! REAL LIFE!) and it kind of sucks to watch them deal with all this and know I can only toss in comments here and there. But things I want to say.

@Tulemrah: There's really no set role for divine's job as patron. Really, ever since I've played Lusternia (for like, what, all of ten months?), I notice that jobs tend to be what you make them. If you want help from someone who has the most hands-on information about Hallifax and the Aeros, it's in your place to bug Elostian as the GA. He's pretty accommodating, and I can attest to the fact that (while He definitely has His opinions) He tries to help you figure out your own stances and ideas. He's done this when I was a Dean, a Minister, and whenever I need to bug Him as Mayor. He's yours to pester. ( you Elo, sorry if I promote abusing you)

As for philosophy and art. The philosophies are actually -fascinating- if you look at them. It's what divides Hallifax and Gaudiguch, really. Different ideas of how to achieve Enlightenment or Truth. It's a mindset, it's debating, whatever. This used to be more obvious when the guild was the entire city, I remember having debates set up in the library where people would go around and argue things like subjective vs objective truth.

There has been more time to give to the Institute. Aeros, as I recall, were whipped together quickly for the Hallifax reopening. Yeah, that makes it a harder process, but also kind of exciting. We're -building- something. We could go for sociology, psychology, philosophy, why not. I've tried doing some stuff, like using air as an art form, Ileein used air FOR SCIENCE!, I helped churn out philosophy with Anisu/Shedrin/Kazban and company. Air is about flexibility. Air is about constant motion, fluidity, being able to weather everything. And that's why they have philosophy--flexibility of the mind, of thoughts, it's the most fluid thing there is.

Tulemrah, I remember you saying you wanted Aeros to be different about art or science than elsewhere. There's a huge huge difference between rewarding a working system and rewarding the -understanding- of a system and the -reasoning- behind it. Just because someone can write a play or conduct an experiment doesn't mean they consider what it all means, what's behind it. You said you wanted to work on that. Do it. I think it's a fantastic idea.

"You wrote a play. Great. But what are you trying to convey about the world through it, if anything. You wrote a scholarly piece, wonderful. But what's the point of it. How do you apply it." You make people -argue- things. You make them -think- which is what I think Aeros were attempting to get at.

don't really need a different one since master in arts != artist in real life either! (in fact the first master of arts was a degree in teaching!)

This.

You get city favours just for publishing something, you have to do more if you want a guild favour for it too.

Something else @Phoeubs: If I can find a way to justify including designs in this art program, I'm going to pester you to put those gravy fruit up for review. That platter is brilliant! That's what I mean about the thought behind something. Before you even eat that thing, you know there's something wrong, but it's not obvious enough to justify not eating it unless you already know what it is.

Idea. Don't require people to create the things in question. Encourage people to go watch different plays, study designs, study art, read books. And then encourage discussion on them. It's more like critique than anything. You get a bonus if you were the creator, but there's something to be said for analyzing work, and that should be the focus over the creation. Leave creating to the bards and the Institute, Aeromancers are about studying what's already created and thinking about its purpose.

Ooh, like my favorite of the graduate studies requirements-- the one where you have to find a work from another city and tear it to shreds.

I know some other orgs, for awhile, would watch the newest plays and read the newest publications and then critique them. Dude, think about that. I know that the library is starting its work on a newsletter, which informs the populace and does summaries, but we're talking more dissertations and such. You could even tie in parallels between genres and plays and stories and whatever. "A Twisted Skein and Unholy Emanantions both seek to prove ." Think literature classes! Mixed with philosophy! With a healthy dose of ARTISTIC ELITISM.

Man, feel free to criticize the Sentinels and the Institute, for that matter. We are talking HIGHER THOUGHTS here. We think moar and they shoot guns and create fetuses and slay things with metals. *sagenod*

making your own works should still be rewarded regardless. Eg you could still get a guildfavour for the book while marking up points for your path seperately. (especially since the cityreward for it becomes absolete very quickly now)