As a leader in another Hallifax guild, I just want to say, please, please, please do not corner the market on science. I've been told by quite a few people that the Aeromancers can't give out degrees, which makes me die a little on the inside. I've actually been meaning to have a sit down with you IG to figure out just what we're allowed to do on the science, which isn't something I should need to do.

On a less bitter note (GA burnout, I has it), what Lendren said could probably work for you. We currently have the, no requirements, just rewards model going, but no one's used it yet. I hate to say it, but maybe a point system? The idea of a major is a good one for the Institute. If you want to specialize in a certain department, x number of your points should be in that area. Otherwise, pick from a list of suggestions, with the ability to come up with your own ideas. In the real academic world, your thesis has to be something no one else has done.

You should be able to give degrees. As Phoebus has said I believe, Aeromancers are the Philosophers, so maybe Philosophy degrees or some such. For the Aquamancer Majors, it's 2 levels in it, Masters, and Doctorate. You should be able to split it between Philosophy, Arts, Science, etc, if you wish. All a matter of how you approach it imo.

Hallifax just has the Scientist-higher education theme going for it, while you can look at it this way: Researchers are closer to the universities that specialize in certain higher level functions (maths, physics, etc.), while the Aeromancers can be closer to a University that specializes in arts, social sciences and humanities. They specialize in them, yes, but that
doesn't mean that either neglects the different options.

Edit: Building off what Neos said, I should clarify!

I am curious as to who says this (don't say in this topic though). I am well aware that the rp of the institute is to see the aeromancers as a colege/university of 'lesser' sciences however it is still is one and really to hell to those that say the aeromancers can't have their own 'degrees'

I want to have high titles for each of our 'spheres', which are art, philosophy, science, and combat. Ideally you'd get the guild honour for each. Since the Aeromancers are supposed to be a scholary institution, degrees make sense. Any ideas for other titles that have the same connotation would be awesome. Doctor of Philosophy seems obvious, but someone told me only the Institute can give out Doctorates. I haven't had this confirmed by anyone in the guild though. I'd like to work out certain scientific areas that we specialize in, things that make sense for engineers, also meteorology. (*glares at Ridley* What happened to that awesome weather station idea you had?!) I'm just not sure what we'll call the titles if we can't use doctorates.

I would love to encourage some rivalry RP with the Institute. I occasionally say things to students that imply I think they're making half of it up to make themselves look smart.

Aeromancers can be philosophers, sure, but...

...they should really be giving out Engineering degrees. The real world relationship between theoretical scientists and engineers is a veritable goldmine of mixed brotherhood and rivalry, that should be plumbed for all it's worth.

Just think of them as different, competing universities.

There's not much room to be an Engineer, though. Engineer what? I don't see any references in-city to whatever magic is actually keeping Hallifax afloat in the skies. Is it the Generators? IF so, doesn't seem to be Aeromancy.

The focus seems to have been on the Illuminati and the Institute from the start. Pyromancer guild lore is only mentioned in a collegium quest during spammy NPC turnins and isn't even written down anywhere by the guild itself. Aeromancer guild lore ... well, they have air conditioners that they don't mind slaughtering! Though, personally, I do like the philosophy documents available in the guild library.

Exactly, all the sciencey types are in the Institute, so there's no use building on that at the moment. We're trying to focus on art and philosophy right now.


Oh, that's simple it's .


I agree, and these new shinies aren't helping my attitude. I understand they've been working on these changes for a while though, so it's a very small bump to the bitter meter.

I will say here what I told Lilia in pm, one can easily go institute = hard sciences, aeromancers = soft sciences.

I always considered it as follows:

Uniquely institute: The formal sciences, natural sciences (except air related stuff)
Uniquely aeromancers: Social and behavorial sciences
Shared between institute and aeromancers: natural sciences related to air, applied sciences
Shared between aeromancers and feature bards: Writing/literature and general art theory
Uniquely bards: the performance arts (think Juilliard)

I actually think the natural sciences would go better with the Aeromancers. I think of the main difference as being practical and theoretical. The Institute has all the theoretical physicists, and the Aeromancers are the ones out in the field, finding real world applications.

Agreed. This also goes with what Lendren said about the relationship between engineers and theorists. Both study science and mathematics, but they approach it in very different ways; the engineers look for a practical, application-oriented standpoint, while the theorists wanting to find out the equations and concepts behind a natural phenomena. So, the theorists (the Institute, in this case) could come up with a brilliant new scientific theory or idea, but the engineers (the Aeromancers) are the ones who put the new theory or idea into practice by using it to build a new weather-manipulating machine or wind-powered generator or what have you. I don't know how this would be implemented into the guild, though, but I certainly love the idea of it.

As for Ileein's question, I agree with Arel that some of the most fun guild advancement tasks dealt with lore/RP/history. One of my favorites was a Shadowdancer GR2 requirement to come up with a ritual that had something to do with Mother Night, the fae, etc., and scribe it into the guild's Big Book of Rituals. Not only was it creative and flavorful, but it also deepened the guild's lore and made you feel like you had contributed something unique to the guild. I'm not sure how this would translate to the Institute, but perhaps it could be something like giving a short lecture or presentation on their studies? It's not easy to figure out where the line between "interesting" and "too much work" lies.

There's a problem with this, though.

When you're working with ideas in a fantasy game, your possibilities are endless. You could theorize about almost anything. All you need is a discussion and a book to put it in.

If Aeromancers are stuck with the application end of the stick, they're screwed. It's ultimately on an Administrator's volunteer time to make actual, visible applications happen. Plus, at least for me, the theory (at least the philosophy) is far easier for me than the practical applications like engineering.

(All of these grievances said; Elostian is wonderful at supporting his guilds and I think he's been working on stuff for both the Institute and Aeromancers for awhile now.)

Edit: Also, we can't do any weather machines. Weather anything, in any practical form, is indefinitely banned because we're stuck with Achaean legacy code for our weather system that not even the original creators can decipher.

To be honest I have no idea of where exactly the line is between some of the natural sciences and applied sciences. However applied sciences is things like R&D and the master in engineering degrees in real life. Considering astrology is a natural science I would be hard pressed to put it in a mainly aeromancer setting though.

Anyway we should probably discuss this somewhere else and stop highjacking Ileein's topic. Sorry Ileein!

This is true, sadly. Like I said, I have no idea how the engineering idea (let alone weather manipulation) would actually be implemented. But I agree with Lilia that focusing on practical scientific applications just seems more fitting for the Aeromancers, what with the Centre of Aeromantic Engineering and the aforementioned keeping-Hallifax-afloat thing.

Anyway, Anisu's right. Sorry, Ileein, I promise this will be my last hijack of your thread.

Make a new thread so we can keep discussing it, it's interesting!

(I had a rambly Aeromancy thing here but I'll save it for if we move to a different thread for it. The part that has to do with Aeromancer advancement is still here though.)

I agree with people who say give people the option to not have to do a lot of hard writing. Writing is not easy for everyone, in fact, it is very, very difficult for some people. Such as myself! A day when I can get a thought I've had out coherently is a good day, and I know I am not the only person with that sort of problem, not to mention people whose first language isn't English. I know you're supposed to be a super scholarly Institute, but you gotta keep in mind that this is a game, and for some people playing, writing isn't fun. It's a struggle and a chore.

When this semester is completely over (almost! Woo!) I really want to sit down with the rest of the people at the Aeromancers and try to make our advancement a little less, um...boring. It's very boring. I would hate to have to do most of these tasks we have our guild members doing, to be honest. I want to work it more into our guild's RP, which may solve two problems: 1) People not being very interested in advancement and 2) People not caring what the Aeromancers are supposed to be about! What are we even supposed to be about anymore?? You can say philosophy all day long but where does it get you? Blah, work in my future. But once I do not have to balance game work with school work, hopefully, hopefully things will be awesome a little better. I'm just glad I don't have to do it alone. Tulemrah is a great Provost and I don't know what I would have done during the past couple months without her help!

I'd rather talk with Ileein IG first, see what we can work out between us. If anything is left up for discussion after that, I'd love to hear everyone else's opinions.

See, would still tell anyone who told you you cannot do degrees to stuff it, nothing is stopping you, and you don't need the Researchers permission. Just make it your own!

Edit: @Ileein: If people have the impression that it is, even if it isn't, then probably one of the best ways of encouraging people is to remind/show them alternatives, it's a way to foster relationships between newer members and older, and probably a few other things I just can't think of.

As far as I can see, that puts them on precisely even footing with the Institute, given that we have next to nothing by way of explanation how anything works and no way to really test most of it. Making a testable, falsifiable theory about why quicksilver works, and making a diagram showing how the load-bearing struts of the spires can absorb the impact of the wind, are precisely as supported as one another: you have to make most of it up and hope no one contradicts you long enough for it to slip into canon.