Placeus2010-12-19 13:04:21
I was wondering a little while back about the base Cosmic skills and how they are related to the four specialisations. When looking at the elementalism skills, you can see a pretty clear link between each skill and the element/plane/specialisation it comes from.
It's possible to see a similar link with some of the Cosmic skills, but others are (to me at least) a little more abstract. Is this because Cosmic is a more fundamental magic or am I just missing tie-ins that are obvious to others?
Some of my choices here are based more on the nature of the Rituals specialisation; for example Quickening feels more like Aeonics than Harmonics. Do you think it's valid to claim a Cosmic skill is derived from a particular cosmic plane because it feels like that plane's aligned Rituals spec?
It's possible to see a similar link with some of the Cosmic skills, but others are (to me at least) a little more abstract. Is this because Cosmic is a more fundamental magic or am I just missing tie-ins that are obvious to others?
Some of my choices here are based more on the nature of the Rituals specialisation; for example Quickening feels more like Aeonics than Harmonics. Do you think it's valid to claim a Cosmic skill is derived from a particular cosmic plane because it feels like that plane's aligned Rituals spec?
CODE
Deathsight          See ripples in the cosmos of life.      Nil/Shallamar
Window              Seek out another in your mind's eye.
Waterwalk          Walk upon the surface of water.
Fear                Conjure up primal fear in the hearts of others.      Nil/Shallamar
Cosmicfire          Summon a blast of cosmic energy.
Enfeeble            Shrivel the muscles of your foes.
Diminish            Make a person shrink.      Vortex
Enlarge            Make a person grow.      Vortex
Soulwash            Cleanse yourself or others of spiritual afflictions.      Celestia
Web                Bind someone with strands of the cosmos.
Sleep              Put your enemy to sleep.
Cloak              Resist attempts at magical summonings.
Farscout            Identify the whereabouts of all enemies or allies.
Timeslip            Slip through time to avoid being attacked.      Continuum
Quickening          Increase the speed of your mind.      Continuum
Gate                Open up planar gates to or from the cosmic planes.
Window              Seek out another in your mind's eye.
Waterwalk          Walk upon the surface of water.
Fear                Conjure up primal fear in the hearts of others.      Nil/Shallamar
Cosmicfire          Summon a blast of cosmic energy.
Enfeeble            Shrivel the muscles of your foes.
Diminish            Make a person shrink.      Vortex
Enlarge            Make a person grow.      Vortex
Soulwash            Cleanse yourself or others of spiritual afflictions.      Celestia
Web                Bind someone with strands of the cosmos.
Sleep              Put your enemy to sleep.
Cloak              Resist attempts at magical summonings.
Farscout            Identify the whereabouts of all enemies or allies.
Timeslip            Slip through time to avoid being attacked.      Continuum
Quickening          Increase the speed of your mind.      Continuum
Gate                Open up planar gates to or from the cosmic planes.
Unknown2010-12-19 13:14:29
Hrm, I don't think it's quite as clear-cut as that.
For example, you put Diminish and Enlarge under Vortex, when it really has nothing in common other than the fact that both involve physical changes.
I think the only one which really fits a cosmic plane would be Deathsight to Shallamar. As Shallamar used to be the home of the Fates, it seems possible that the two are connected.
Other than that, I don't really see the connection between the planes and the skills beyond a very tenuous link.
For example, you put Diminish and Enlarge under Vortex, when it really has nothing in common other than the fact that both involve physical changes.
I think the only one which really fits a cosmic plane would be Deathsight to Shallamar. As Shallamar used to be the home of the Fates, it seems possible that the two are connected.
Other than that, I don't really see the connection between the planes and the skills beyond a very tenuous link.
Placeus2010-12-19 13:15:04
What the hell. Same deal, but with Rituals specs.
CODE
Encipher            Hide your writings from prying eyes.      Gaudi/Paradigmatics
Laetitia            Heal the ego.    Celest/Sacraments
Fortuna            Call upon good fortune.    Gaudi/Paradigmatics
Puella              Heal the body.    Celest/Sacraments
Draconis            Cover your body with dragon scales.    Gaudi/Paradigmatics
Amissio            Absorb the mental energy of others.
Puer                Heal specific body parts.    Celest/Sacraments
Via                Travel swiftly across Lusternia's highways.
Populus            Increase your charismatic charm.
Conjuctio          Command yourself a following.
Acquisitio          Unconsciously pick up things around you.
Rubeus              Focus your negative emotions.   Â
Tristitia          Sense how another protects himself.
Carcer              Hinder the travel of others.
Laetitia            Heal the ego.    Celest/Sacraments
Fortuna            Call upon good fortune.    Gaudi/Paradigmatics
Puella              Heal the body.    Celest/Sacraments
Draconis            Cover your body with dragon scales.    Gaudi/Paradigmatics
Amissio            Absorb the mental energy of others.
Puer                Heal specific body parts.    Celest/Sacraments
Via                Travel swiftly across Lusternia's highways.
Populus            Increase your charismatic charm.
Conjuctio          Command yourself a following.
Acquisitio          Unconsciously pick up things around you.
Rubeus              Focus your negative emotions.   Â
Tristitia          Sense how another protects himself.
Carcer              Hinder the travel of others.
Unknown2010-12-19 13:19:55
Hrm. Only Fortuna would fit Paradigmatics. Encipher and Draconis fits Illuminati and Gaudiguch respectively, but not Paradigmatics.
Placeus2010-12-19 13:28:45
QUOTE (Caerulo @ Dec 19 2010, 10:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hrm, I don't think it's quite as clear-cut as that.
I agree, they're definitely not clear cut. I'm just interested to hear what associations others have made between base Cosmic and Rituals skills and various org ideologies, cosmic planes and skill specialisations.
Unknown2010-12-19 14:02:15
Nihilists: Web, Enfeeble. Rubeus, Carcer, Amissio, Acquisitio.
Fatalists: Deathsight, Farscout, Window.
Illuminati: Fear, Enlarge, Diminish, Cloak. Encipher, Draconis, Fortuna.
Celestines: Waterwalk, Soulwash. Puella, Puer, Laetitia, Populus.
Institute: Timeslip, Quickening, Web. Tristitia.
Universal: Gate, Cosmicfire. Via, Conuctio.
PS: Rituals are based off of real life geomancy, and cosmic is based loosely off of eternalism as a philosophy of time.
Fatalists: Deathsight, Farscout, Window.
Illuminati: Fear, Enlarge, Diminish, Cloak. Encipher, Draconis, Fortuna.
Celestines: Waterwalk, Soulwash. Puella, Puer, Laetitia, Populus.
Institute: Timeslip, Quickening, Web. Tristitia.
Universal: Gate, Cosmicfire. Via, Conuctio.
PS: Rituals are based off of real life geomancy, and cosmic is based loosely off of eternalism as a philosophy of time.
Jules2010-12-19 21:53:54
Fatalists?
Eventru2010-12-19 21:55:05
The way I see it... Elemental planes are 'drawn' on, they're vibrations that are utilized. Cosmic planes, conversely, are not. Apples and potatoes!
Diamondais2010-12-19 22:08:31
Furien2010-12-19 22:16:09
Iytha's largely got it right.
Unknown2010-12-19 22:19:16
Of course Eventru has more direct access to Estarra's world vision, but I see it as manipulating the basic forces of the cosmic planes, as opposed to the elements. Similar to mages, guardians learn how to tap into the basic forces of the cosmic energies that are part of all the cosmic spheres. They have to choose a specialty based on their plane, but some of the basic forces common to all cosmic planes are tappable. Cosmic energies can affect the mind and spirit. Walking on water, for instance, involves manipulating cosmic energy so gravity is no longer a factor (as opposed to an elementalist actually manipulating the force of water).
Eventru2010-12-19 23:02:42
QUOTE (Phred @ Dec 19 2010, 05:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Of course Eventru has more direct access to Estarra's world vision, but I see it as manipulating the basic forces of the cosmic planes, as opposed to the elements. Similar to mages, guardians learn how to tap into the basic forces of the cosmic energies that are part of all the cosmic spheres. They have to choose a specialty based on their plane, but some of the basic forces common to all cosmic planes are tappable. Cosmic energies can affect the mind and spirit. Walking on water, for instance, involves manipulating cosmic energy so gravity is no longer a factor (as opposed to an elementalist actually manipulating the force of water).
Don't misunderstand, it really is my opinion! I've not talked about it with Est before, so I'm not sure.
But I think you worded my opinion a lot better than I did!
Ileein2010-12-20 03:36:01
Here's my interpretation. Cosmic energy is more elementary, more rarefied, than elemental energy. Energy seems to get "coarser," almost, as one descends the planar ladder, beginning at Astral where one can draw pure power from the nodes, moving to Cosmic, then Elemental where the energy has begun to take on noticeable physical form, to Ethereal where those physical forms combine in a stylized fashion, then to Prime where all of the energies combine to form the sum total of Prime existence. It's like one of those water installations where water falls from pool to pool, ending in one large basin; it picks up more complexity as it moves forward.
Elemental energy, then, already has an 'essence,' a form, a set template (fire, water, earth, air) that it doesn't really deviate from much with the exception of really basic stuff like mageblast, possibly. Cosmic, on the other hand, is more elementary and flexible, and can be bent to various purposes rather than being drawn upon-- sort of like stem cells, if elemental energy is like getting an organ transplant, which is a weird analogy but there you go.
Cosmic energy does come in flavors, sort of, but they're more subtle, less rigid.
Elemental energy, then, already has an 'essence,' a form, a set template (fire, water, earth, air) that it doesn't really deviate from much with the exception of really basic stuff like mageblast, possibly. Cosmic, on the other hand, is more elementary and flexible, and can be bent to various purposes rather than being drawn upon-- sort of like stem cells, if elemental energy is like getting an organ transplant, which is a weird analogy but there you go.
Cosmic energy does come in flavors, sort of, but they're more subtle, less rigid.
Jules2010-12-20 05:23:45
QUOTE (diamondais @ Dec 19 2010, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nihilists pre taint wars
I thought they were called the Prophets...? Oh well, nevermind.
QUOTE (Ileein @ Dec 19 2010, 10:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here's my interpretation. Cosmic energy is more elementary, more rarefied, than elemental energy. Energy seems to get "coarser," almost, as one descends the planar ladder, beginning at Astral where one can draw pure power from the nodes, moving to Cosmic, then Elemental where the energy has begun to take on noticeable physical form, to Ethereal where those physical forms combine in a stylized fashion, then to Prime where all of the energies combine to form the sum total of Prime existence. It's like one of those water installations where water falls from pool to pool, ending in one large basin; it picks up more complexity as it moves forward.
Elemental energy, then, already has an 'essence,' a form, a set template (fire, water, earth, air) that it doesn't really deviate from much with the exception of really basic stuff like mageblast, possibly. Cosmic, on the other hand, is more elementary and flexible, and can be bent to various purposes rather than being drawn upon-- sort of like stem cells, if elemental energy is like getting an organ transplant, which is a weird analogy but there you go.
Cosmic energy does come in flavors, sort of, but they're more subtle, less rigid.
Elemental energy, then, already has an 'essence,' a form, a set template (fire, water, earth, air) that it doesn't really deviate from much with the exception of really basic stuff like mageblast, possibly. Cosmic, on the other hand, is more elementary and flexible, and can be bent to various purposes rather than being drawn upon-- sort of like stem cells, if elemental energy is like getting an organ transplant, which is a weird analogy but there you go.
Cosmic energy does come in flavors, sort of, but they're more subtle, less rigid.
I wrote a book on this, once upon a time. Not sure what I titled it... Nature of the Planes? Iuno, it's one of the two books I've written.
Unknown2010-12-20 05:32:34
Prophets were high ranking Fatalists.
Saran2010-12-20 06:13:35
QUOTE (Ileein @ Dec 20 2010, 02:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Here's my interpretation. Cosmic energy is more elementary, more rarefied, than elemental energy. Energy seems to get "coarser," almost, as one descends the planar ladder, beginning at Astral where one can draw pure power from the nodes, moving to Cosmic, then Elemental where the energy has begun to take on noticeable physical form, to Ethereal where those physical forms combine in a stylized fashion, then to Prime where all of the energies combine to form the sum total of Prime existence. It's like one of those water installations where water falls from pool to pool, ending in one large basin; it picks up more complexity as it moves forward.
Elemental energy, then, already has an 'essence,' a form, a set template (fire, water, earth, air) that it doesn't really deviate from much with the exception of really basic stuff like mageblast, possibly. Cosmic, on the other hand, is more elementary and flexible, and can be bent to various purposes rather than being drawn upon-- sort of like stem cells, if elemental energy is like getting an organ transplant, which is a weird analogy but there you go.
Cosmic energy does come in flavors, sort of, but they're more subtle, less rigid.
Elemental energy, then, already has an 'essence,' a form, a set template (fire, water, earth, air) that it doesn't really deviate from much with the exception of really basic stuff like mageblast, possibly. Cosmic, on the other hand, is more elementary and flexible, and can be bent to various purposes rather than being drawn upon-- sort of like stem cells, if elemental energy is like getting an organ transplant, which is a weird analogy but there you go.
Cosmic energy does come in flavors, sort of, but they're more subtle, less rigid.
When trying to write about the cosmic and elemental planes, one of the greatest difficulties I came across was that there were only four. The current alignment creates the impression of intrinsic connection between the elemental and cosmic planes, the four "paths" from astral to prime and vice versa. It's also seen through essences and Xion, this really goes against the impression given by their description as the creches within which the gods were created meaning that there should be many, many more out there that we just are not aware of. Though, there are a few arguments that can be made though and they make me lol.
The point being that the cosmic "flavours" are perhaps rigid in their own ways, we have Continuum which may be the state that all dead creches end up in or it may be unique to that particular creche flavour, if so then it is entirely possible that there are other planes out there that align with the other types of elders (not circles, "families") and that cosmic powers if attributable to only one creche might come from them. Or you could go off and consider domoths...
Eventru2010-12-20 06:17:11
It's important to remember all the creches were wrapped in 'wombs' made up of the elemental planes, if I do recall. So Celestia is 'wrapped' by water, which helps it grow.
Lorina2010-12-20 06:37:12
That is a really weird visualization.
Furien2010-12-20 06:38:42
So does that mean there's Elemental planes other than Air/Water/Fire/Earth, or that other cosmic creches are contained within like Nil/Celestia/Vortex/Continuum?
Sylphas2010-12-20 06:46:34
Or that the elemental planes are not unique, that there are perhaps more planes of water than just the one we know.
