Town need not know everything about other townies.

When someone says that X is something, there can be a various reasons. They can be bluffing, they can make an educated guess, they can have acquired that knowledge through the use of personal powers, or they can have deciphered something about the game setup through their roles. However, town do NOT need to know the exact means of how they acquired such knowledge. They can ask, and the person can give an answer, but that answer is not neccessarily truthful. And therein lies the problem.

Assume scum. Scum can easily bluff their way to a lot of knowledge. They can say whatever, but while their own team will know the truth, town will not. If they claim that X is aligned Y because they are Z, the only ways to confirm that is to either lynch X, or use a truth detection power. Town are truly none the wiser, except that they can get suspect if more than two of a strong power appears, but even that is not a truly telling sign. There were, after all, two cops last game.

Assume town. It is in the interest of town to remain honest. Unless there are multiple scum factions, scum will know who is all town, and who is scum. Thus, when the townie claims a role, town is left in the same situation as if the townie was scum, but scum will know that the claim was made by a townie, and that the claim is thus most likely real.

The most likely end result is that town is fed a lie, or scum is fed the knowledge of a role. Scum can plan their own night actions around this knowledge, and if they have powers beyond their mafia kill, they can negate that power further.

It is the same basic principle behind why we don't have mass day 1 claims. Town is likely to give truthful answers, giving scum accurate useful information, while scum is going to give false information so town will need to take everything it knows with a grain of salt.

This is why "Town need not know". Because right now, scum is the faction that most benefit from such knowledge.

This is theory some of the more experienced players should be familiar with. That they aren't is odd enough in itself, but that's for my next post.

Here's my problem, though. Why mention Casi and what affiliation you think she is at all at this point? She had what... one vote against her, and no one has been rallying to lynch her. She's not had to really defend herself seriously in any manner. I agree that the town does NOT need to know until it NEEDS to know so we can keep things from scum... so in this case why mention it at all?

To clarify perhaps - I've never implied that you now need to tell us how you know that. I did state that if your whole theory is based off of just what Casi has publicly posted, then I didn't see a reason not to point it out to us. What I, and I think others, want to know is your motivation for mentioning it in the first place.

Classic scum move. Reveal something that didn't really need revealing, but then cite that town doesn't need to know everything since it helps scum more.

It's a good point. I think she is being a forgiving God Mod because she counted my initial random vote, but yeah, probably safer to go to her convention. I'd forgotten about the pound signs.

Now, people wonder why I said that I think Casilu is town. The reason behind it was honestly because I wanted to try something new. As I've told a few people, playing mafia has gotten to be a bit boring at lately. I'm tired of always playing cautiously, so I figured that for once I'd play it a bit risky.

If you wonder what makes me think Casilu is town?

Let's take a look at Gleip's reasoning again.

The reasoning is sound, however he forgets one important point. This is typical Casilu behaviour. Compare Casilu this game with Casilu in the previous game. There is a difference between town Casi and scum Casi, as town Casi is far more aggressive and wild in her accusations. Also, scum Casi is more likely to protect townies.

What I feel I have noticed from this little escapade however, is quite interesting.

I'm never jester. I complain about jesters always at any time. I have several times stated that should I get jester, I'd immediately bow out of the game. Clearly, I'm not Jester. This isn't the big point though. The big point is all the heat that followed. Too many people followed this blindly, without ever stopping to consider "why". Because frankly, when has scum ever pulled a stunt like what I did? I wouldn't be surprised if there were one or two scum following Tekora's claim.

Then there is this.

That there is honestly quite a bit of stretching. Tekora is one of those who should know the theory behind "town don't need to know". He also claimed that I was acting similarly to a jester. However, why would he then need to try building a case on me? If he genuinely thought me to be Jester, instead of using that as a clever way to disguise an attempt to shift blame, he would not try to build a lynch on me, as that would grant me victory.

Vote: Tekora

And I go to bed. Do give me a chance to claim though if you still aren't convinced.

Oh, and about my Phoebus vote, this comes from a list of scum tells from the Wiki:

Scum love to talk. In the pregame, perhaps less, but they still do it. This is ESPECIALLY common in games with experienced scum. While newer players might not make full use of their time, experienced players would. They'd use the time to strategize, and from that strategy, their play from then-on would be decided.

But sometimes, they fear that players will confirm too quickly--that they will have their conversations cut short, and that day will begin without them having had the chance to talk about everything that needed to be said. So they wait.

Basically, this tell is the last to confirm are more likely to be scum.


@Kira:

And about my scum-town behavior: I also act scummy if I'm a really powerful role. I don't want to draw attention to me.

No, I'm even less convinced now that you're contradicting yourself so badly. You have still failed to explain why you would make any claim that Casilu is town.

I said I'm tempted to label you a Jester because you're purposefully getting people to suspect you and you're experienced enough to know better than that. Not that I was 100% SURE you were a Jester. Stop putting words in my mouth.

This is just one long-winded OMGUS. Nice try, though.

Whilst the group argues amongst themselves, the person of Tekora excuses themselves to the parlour.

Time passes; more arguing occurs. Tekora does not return. The group find this strange; was he beckoned by the Endless Witch?

It takes only a moment's investigation to find their corpse in the parlour, clad in an elegant gown, the veil of the game's spell torn away to reveal their identity: battered and bloodied by what is clearly blunt force trauma and with a neck snapped cleanly by an expert hand, their is face bruised almost beyond recognition.

Tekora is dead.

The group finds their vacant, soulless eyes very disconcerting:

Tekora was Bernkastel.
They perished by repeated blunt force trauma during Day 1.
No clues were found at the scene that would indicate the identity of their assailant.
Due to their absence from the group at the time of the attack, the paradox of Hempel's Raven is in play: their alignment is indeterminable.

Day 1 continues.

Mod Note: Ignore the below posts, as the wrong identity was given upon death. :X

It...what? So confused!

The wiki suggests that EVA-Beatrice was Not A Nice Person. This may be a good thing.

Woah, woah, WOAH! Beatrice is probably scum. How did that happen though?

Sorry, I'm tired. I only remember reading about Beatrice, not EVA-Beatrice. What's the difference?

Vote Count!

Rika (1): Gleip
Kiradawea (3): Rika, Shiri, Phoebus

With 15 people alive, it will take 8 votes to lynch someone.

>Beatrice is the main antagonist


Somehow, Paranoia is making me think that was a fake role. Damn.

Wait, EVA-Beatrice. Her successor.


Nevermind.

http://umineko.wikia.com/wiki/Eva-Beatrice

Seeing as Tekora was Eva-Beatrice and not just plain Eva, I think it's fair to assume that he wasn't town.

While I want to understand more, I've got to go to bed

Oh well. It sounds like She's mean, meer? Meer. Ok, going to go to bed and ponder. Meer.

Watch when we're all shocked that Shulamit is the true mafia boss.