Page 6 – Lusternia

Xenthos2011-01-29 01:20:53Show/Hide

QUOTE (Eventru @ Jan 28 2011, 08:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And is, IIRC, a fair bit more than twice Magnagora's construct.

Which even if true does not change that Magnagora's construct grants a larger effect than the other ones, impacting all activities instead of being limited to just PvP (and a very small percentage chance in PvP at that)...

Seriously, the disparity here is irksome.

Unknown2011-01-29 07:11:19Show/Hide

QUOTE (Deschain @ Jan 28 2011, 11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In conclusion, sip bonus is greater than the other things since it benefits almost every activity (bashing, pvp, influencing), and not just a subset of a subset of those activities. And you get it without any downsides, as Sojiro pointed out.

Now quit saying no one gave a valid argument - ignoring them doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Your first quote essentially says one is better than the other. That's less of an argument and more of an opinion.

Sojiro's comment actually has some meat to it, but I think he downplays the other abilities. If foal works more like RoA, it has a 15% chance on all sources of damage. That's nice. If it's closer to bodyguard, it's admittedly less useful than an RoA clone, but no one can deny that it doesn't have PVP utility. And if you don't think +150 damage matters in PVP, look at the people that pay the 1400 credits to upgrade from l2 knight to l3 knight runes.

Third quote is again fairly hollow outside of saying one is better than the other.

Forgive me for asking for something a bit more detailed. 10 > 0.00001. 10 > 9.99999. There's a disparity between both equations, so simply saying one is better than the other or that it's more applicable or whatever doesn't mean action should be taken.

Lastly, posting tidbits of fact worded to emphasize agenda doesn't constitute an argument, at least by my standards. I said specifically what needed to be addressed for any worthwhile discourse to take place.

QUOTE (Xenthos @ Jan 28 2011, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yet it doesn't give level 1 regen to health and ego at the same time (another 600 credits), whereas the sip bonus does all three.

Also, Sahmiam, I absolutely love that you state I haven't made any comparisons between them. They're all over the place in this thread (and the old one)! There were a couple quoted, which is nice, but all that tells me is that you are either not reading or intentionally ignoring points.

(Seriously, when do you know me NOT to make arguments with points and reasoning? If anything, I make too many!)

I never denied you made comparisons. I distinctly remember saying that you did. I asked a two-part question that hasn't been addressed. The latter point no one has discussed. The former has started to formulate, and aside from Sojiro, I haven't seen anything beyond opinions.

No, I did not read the old thread, and yes, I am prone to miss things. I've been reading this thread, but I honestly must say that it reads more as an agenda than anything of merit.

Unknown2011-01-29 08:14:29Show/Hide

I'd like confirmation on if the foal works on pvp damage or if it's more pve, like beastmastery bodyguard, first. If it's the latter, then something only useful for PVE is worse than something useful in all facets. Honestly, can't make a call here until someone posts up actual relevant info to this. Though tentatively, if it IS a 15% chanc to block all attacks, then yeah, foal is more awesome than initially imagined. If not, then no.

An extra 150 damage 10% of the time (being generous) isn't anything at all. Your comparison would hold more merit if the 150 damage was consistent. But it's not, so no, I'm not downplaying the crow at all. P.S. Anyone would pays 600 cr to upgrade is a sucker.

Edit: Doing tests on how often the crow ticks, it's definitely looking like <10%, since the admin like 'equal' percentages, I'd hazard to say that the foal ticks just as often.

Edit2: 5/156 hits that the crow ticked = 3%, looking like 5% on a good day.

Edit3: 6/300 hits, got bored = 2%, if you really really must insist, 5%. Still pretty crappy. Btw it also does cutting damage lol.

Unknown2011-01-29 08:35:13Show/Hide

Well, we won't know until we actually build the construct (which'll proooooobably be a really really long time).

It's partial damage reduction, so it'd be probably be something like 10% chance to block 150 damage, to mirror the crow. Can't say for sure unless admin say.

Talan2011-01-29 12:18:26Show/Hide

QUOTE (Talan @ Jan 25 2011, 03:38 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My small quibble with ours is that the proc rate on the attacking crow seems very low, for the petty amount of damage it does (about 150, less than 5% of the time - don't have the exact number, it seemed less, but I inflate for my generally poor relationship with the rng).

Just wanted to clarify on this, since everyone is using the numbers I hastily posted for crow spirit attack. After testing further, these were indeed high estimates. With just my splendours (73 cutting), I was taking a consistent 95 damage from 4 different people. With my eco charm for cutting damage, it dropped to 34... whether it was a 143 damage kick, or a 900 damage minorsecond.

I did a few tests and ended up with 1/40 hits, 1/70 hits, etc. triggering the crow attack, Shuyin did a run of well over 100 without a hit before I wrote a little script to record the rate properly. I understand about the R part of RNG (of the 6/300 number - Lerad accounted for 3 of those, Viynain 2, Shuyin 1, all kicking me at once - ouch!), but I feel like it's safe to assume the actual rate is lower than I originally estimated. So yes, if we're going to be throwing numbers around, let's use more accurate ones... 2% proc rate, about 100 cutting damage - scaling downward based on the target's dmp for cutting.

Lerad2011-01-29 14:12:36Show/Hide

So, I am a little late to the party for this thread. It only took me a couple of weeks to get my own head wrapped around constructs across all the orgs (I've only ever bothered learning what the night altar does in the past year or so, never bothered with the other orgs) and now that I have, I'm generally inclined to agree with most of those who are saying that Hallifax/Gaudi got the short end of the stick. In the interests of providing the admin a clear picture, I have distilled all the constructs into an easy-to-read comparison model chart thingy like what Xenthos did with minimal commentary. (No, I didn't make these charts specially for this thread, I actually did this on my own first, to give myself a better picture.)

Unfortunately, this thread is already cluttered with 6 pages of the usual forum rhetoric, so all I can do is pray that some admin comes around and spots this post and saves it somewhere they can reference for posterity, or something.

Long post ahead.

CODE
Aetherbubble based

+25% Aetherbubbles
No immolation cost

The Black Rowan of Harmony (Glom)
The Silver Hornbeam of Harmony (Seren)
The Pyramid of Harmony (Gaudi)
The Crystal Sculpture of Harmony (Halli)
The Iron Tower of Harmony (Mag)
The Holy Spire of Harmony (Celest)

CODE
Defense based

Communes get Ethereal/Prime defense
Cities get Cosmic/Elemental defense

Ethereal/Elemental/Cosmic defense Construct gives:

- Transportation to and from defended plane
- Insanity to enemies on defended plane
- Free discretionaries on defended plane
- Level 3 regeneration on defended plane

Prime defense Construct gives:

- Transportation to and from defended plane
- Free Liveforest discretionary only on defended plane
- Extra wood production

CODE
NEW (Mage/Druid based?) Construct

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| Blacknest (Glom)Â Â Â Â Â Â | Standingstone (Seren) | Sacredstar (Celest)Â Â | Ironmachine (Mag)Â Â Â Â | Sacredpyramid (Gaudi) | Logicspire (Halli)Â Â Â Â |
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| Touch gives crowÂ Â Â Â Â Â | Touch gives foalÂ Â Â Â Â Â | Touch gives pendantÂ Â | Touch gives spikeÂ Â Â Â | Touch gives candleÂ Â Â Â | Touch gives cloudÂ Â Â Â |
| Costs 10p on touchÂ Â Â Â | Costs 10p on touchÂ Â Â Â | Costs 10p on touchÂ Â Â Â | Costs 10p on touchÂ Â Â Â | Costs 10p on touchÂ Â Â Â | Costs 10p on touchÂ Â Â Â |
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| Once per monthÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Once per dayÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Once per dayÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Once per monthÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Once per dayÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
| Knockdown all flyersÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Casts carcer??Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Knockdown everyoneÂ Â Â Â | Lights room on fire?Â Â | Hides room exitsÂ Â Â Â Â Â |
| for 5 minutesÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | with chance to stunÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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| Small chance of boost | Improved Ringwalk,Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Increased fire damage |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
| to damage when attack | Parade and AncestralÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Curse effect (carcer, |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | force-ally, damage)Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Small chance of +DMPÂ Â | Level 1 mana regenÂ Â Â Â | +1 sip bonusÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Level 1 fire resistÂ Â | Level 1 elec resistÂ Â |
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| Maximum carrion +15Â Â | Passive adroitnessÂ Â Â Â | Once per monthÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | POINT SPIKE to castÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Gains flight andÂ Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | cures h/m/eÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | disease on targetÂ Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | float on clouds (?)Â Â |
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| 5 DMP to all dtypesÂ Â | 5 DMP to all dtypesÂ Â | 5 DMP to all dtypesÂ Â | 5 DMP to all dtypesÂ Â | 5 DMP to all dtypesÂ Â | 5 DMP to all dtypesÂ Â |
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Quick commentary on how I organised my chart: I grouped the second row as restricted, active, offensive-type abilities, the third as passive, offensive-type abilities, fourth as passive, defensive-type abilities, fifth as miscellaneous extras that I don't know where else to put.

CODE
Original (Guardian/Wiccan based?) Construct

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| Tenebrous Altar (Glom)| Living Altar (Seren)Â Â | Blessed Font (Celest) | Black Crypt (Magna)Â Â | Enigmatic P (Gaudi)Â Â | Crystal Spire (Halli) |
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| Touch gives N.WraithÂ Â | Touch gives M.ChildeÂ Â | Touch gives PhialÂ Â Â Â | Affects Liches/Undead | Touch gives T.EyeÂ Â Â Â | Touch gives T.SenseÂ Â |
| Costs 10p on touchÂ Â Â Â | Costs 10p on touchÂ Â Â Â | Costs 10p on touchÂ Â Â Â | 10p to give/take seed | Costs 10p on touchÂ Â Â Â | Costs 10p on touchÂ Â Â Â |
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| +1 DexterityÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | +1 CharismaÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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| Teleport NightbubbleÂ Â | Teleport MoonbubbleÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
| Access nexus worldÂ Â Â Â | Access nexus worldÂ Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
| from bubbleÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | from bubbleÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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| Can cast Cone indiv.Â Â | Can cast Cone indiv.Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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| Can join coven butÂ Â Â Â | Can join coven butÂ Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
| can't join terrorÂ Â Â Â | can't join rageÂ Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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| Level 2 regenerationÂ Â | Moon-phase variableÂ Â | Counts as SacramentsÂ Â | Level 2 regenerationÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
| during night-timeÂ Â Â Â | regeneration outdoors | user for Honour AuraÂ Â | while in Tainted room |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | (Level 1? Regen)Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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| Gains shadow garbÂ Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Resist to all damageÂ Â | Can cast ChaotesignÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
| DMP to magic/poisonÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | types, more for coldÂ Â | and will be free ifÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | paradigmatics userÂ Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | (9x 5% damage reduc ) |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | (10th is 100% dodge?) |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Rub phial to cure aÂ Â | Chance to resistÂ Â Â Â Â Â | Higher chance toÂ Â Â Â Â Â | Resistance to AeonÂ Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | random afflictionÂ Â Â Â | mental afflictionsÂ Â Â Â | detect illusionsÂ Â Â Â Â Â | effectsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Gains moonbeamÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Halved cost for teleÂ Â | Can use ADROITNESSÂ Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Allows travel to targ | or tesseractÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | during night-timeÂ Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Once per day (hour?)Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Chance to increaseÂ Â Â Â | Gains access toÂ Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | can give afflictionsÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | temp insanity onÂ Â Â Â Â Â | Quickening, similarÂ Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | upon giving damageÂ Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | target when usingÂ Â Â Â | to cosmic, for free?Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Lasts 1 minÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | paradigmaticsÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Once per day (hour?)Â Â |
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|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Can DARKCHANT TRUTHÂ Â | Small resistance toÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | to halve insanityÂ Â Â Â | insanityÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | once per monthÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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| Night users get 2Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Can fully refreshÂ Â Â Â | Can DARKCHANTÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Touch gives butteflyÂ Â | Access to TIMECHANTÂ Â |
| shadows instead of 1Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | hunger/tirednessÂ Â Â Â Â Â | BLOODRAGE to gain exp | 10p to touch, oneÂ Â Â Â | AGEING for all, freeÂ Â |
| when gathering forÂ Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | endurance/willpowerÂ Â | boost twice a monthÂ Â | free castÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | if originally hadÂ Â Â Â |
| cauldron stockpileÂ Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | once a monthÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | (lowmagic autumn)Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | access to itÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | Benediction cast isÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | free if target hasÂ Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | phialÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | SPRINKLE PHIAL givesÂ Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | shieldÂ Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
|Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â | (H/L magic shield?)Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â |
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Another commentary, this time in more detail, because boy, this construct is hella differentiated across each org.

Communes get a random few stuff that cities don't: a stat boost, access to a bubble, individual coning and coven participation. In return for these nifties, they get less of the rest, which are: (from the 6th row onwards)

-Limited regeneration of some sort: Everyone has this, cept Gaudi/Halli.
-DMP/Damage reduction of some sort: This is less common.
-Affliction resist/protection of some sort: Communes don't get this, I put illusion detection under this because illusions let people sneak in other afflictions... I suppose, so protection prevents that? Probably a stretch, but whatever, fits the theme.
-Travel utility of some sort. Nifty, wish Glom had something cool for this too.
-Offensive-boosting ability of some sort.
-Insanity protection of some sort.
-Miscellaneous and moderate utility effects of some sort. I suppose butterfly is more of an offensive, combat based utility, but well, if what that one guy who mentioned it in this thread said about it is true, then I suppose it's "flavor" afterall, something you do when you want to have fun and don't mind dying a messy death.
-Last 2 rows of random defensive kind of utility stuff that only celest has, and which doesn't look very impressive (unless that shield thing does something more earth-shaking than low/highmagic shield.)

Without going into communes v cities (Eventru and others had already gone through that rhetoric already) just comparing the cities (and deleting the last two columns, if you want) show that poor Gaudi and Halli look lacklustre. I mean, sure, the other effects that they are missing out on aren't very strong anyway, but hey, if someone else gets one more useless toy than you do, you'd secretly feel jealous too.

Enjoy

Prav2011-01-29 15:14:34Show/Hide

Lerad, you are probably my favorite poster. Every single one of your posts is well thought out, detailed, objective and free from spiteful asides and insinuations.

Shiri2011-01-29 15:28:47Show/Hide

And so long it breaks the forums.

Prav2011-01-29 15:53:31Show/Hide

Just a quick note, in regards to your chart, Lerad:

QUOTE

TIMECHANT QUICKENING - Four minutes of level 1 eq/balance bonus, usable once per day.

Versus Cosmic Quickening, which is much, much more effective. Cosmic Quickening halves equilibrium recovery time whereas a level 1 bonus reduces balance/equilibrium time by 7%.

Malicia2011-01-29 16:01:29Show/Hide

QUOTE (Xenthos @ Jan 25 2011, 05:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sacredstar
TOUCH - Gives a Pendant of Light for 10 power
1) Pendant gives level 1 mana regeneration
2) RELEASE STARLIGHT to fill one room with starlight once per day
3) RUB PENDANT once a month to cure health/mana/ego
4) 5DMP against all damage sources

Blacknest
TOUCH - Sends a guardian crow for 10 power
1) CROW KNOCKDOWN - Usable once per month, your guardian crow will pull down all flyers overhead for five minutes
2) Guardian crow gives very small chance of attacking when the owner attacks
3) Maximum carrion of a Crow user is increased
4) 5DMP to all damagetypes

Standingstone
TOUCH - Sends a guardian foal for 10 power
1) Foal makes it easier to move more rooms before becoming more hasty
2) Very small chance of partially intercepting an attack
3) The power of Ringwalk, Parade, and Ancestral Curse are increased for Stag users.
4) 5DMP to all damage sources

Ironmachine
TOUCH - Gives a Tainted Spike for 10 power
1) Spike can be POINTed at others to cause disease
2) Spikes gives +1 sip bonus
3) SLAM SPIKE - Once per day, spike can be driven into the ground to cause an earthquake, which will sprawl everyone in the room and have a chance of stunning
4) 5DMP to all damage sources

So.

All of them give 5 DMP.

Three of them are pretty tame; two have, as one of their three non-DMP effects, a minor bonus for a specific sub-set of the organization (for the Black Nest, it's a whopping +15 carrion).
Those same two have as another of their effects a passive ability with a very, very low proc rate.
The final effect for those two is +1 movement on one, and a pull-from-the-skies effect for the other.

Then compare that to something that you can actively use to synergize with your guild skills (point for diseases), along with a sip bonus that improves PvP, bashing, influencing... any activity that involves sipping at all.

Why is there such a serious differential in utility and application of these new Constructs?

We don't really need any such additions, in my opinion... But oh well! I've practiced and perfected the nod and smile maneuver when it comes to these things.

Unknown2011-01-29 17:34:10Show/Hide

QUOTE (Sojiro @ Jan 29 2011, 03:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'd like confirmation on if the foal works on pvp damage or if it's more pve, like beastmastery bodyguard, first. If it's the latter, then something only useful for PVE is worse than something useful in all facets. Honestly, can't make a call here until someone posts up actual relevant info to this. Though tentatively, if it IS a 15% chanc to block all attacks, then yeah, foal is more awesome than initially imagined. If not, then no.

An extra 150 damage 10% of the time (being generous) isn't anything at all. Your comparison would hold more merit if the 150 damage was consistent. But it's not, so no, I'm not downplaying the crow at all. P.S. Anyone would pays 600 cr to upgrade is a sucker.

Edit: Doing tests on how often the crow ticks, it's definitely looking like <10%, since the admin like 'equal' percentages, I'd hazard to say that the foal ticks just as often.

Edit2: 5/156 hits that the crow ticked = 3%, looking like 5% on a good day.

Edit3: 6/300 hits, got bored = 2%, if you really really must insist, 5%. Still pretty crappy. Btw it also does cutting damage lol.

Even if it's a bodyguard clone, it will have some pvp utility, but not nearly as much. I've noticed beasts block really odd things, like shrine powers. I can't recall if there's a chance to block ent attacks or not.

Mirami2011-01-29 17:45:38Show/Hide

It's been said before, but another thing about the TELEPORT MOON/NIGHT ability not mentioned on the chart is that it gives access to Astral (Since communes can't directly transverse, due to not having a cosmic plane and whatnot).

Neos2011-01-29 18:36:03Show/Hide

Chart is a pain to read for me, but you missed the once a day, lasting for a minute sip effect of the phial. So far I've only seen it afflict with three things, two of them looking like the same, and not all that useful for Aquamancers. Burns, holy fire, and vapours. Our demesne will put the fire out on them, so they don't really last long. And the shield is basically pentagram/circle, but on a slighter faster balance.

Constructs Discussion

by Unknown