In Ask Estarra Volume 5, Estarra is open to ideas regarding the "steampunk" elements of the game, possible expansions, etc.


I wanted to create a thread to sketch out possible ideas, as I think there are a lot of possibilities. I wouldn't try to define anything like a skillset, I'm just writing up some ideas.


* Steampunk should mix magic with technology.
* The classic steampunk race is the gnomes in Lusternia, as they fit the classic view of it, along with a bit of whimsy. (Devices tend to be a little rube-goldbergish).
* The construct/collossi have this feel.
* Magnagora is currently the closest to match the classic steampunk archetype, at least in some aspects of the city, although the whole demonic thing has priority.
* Hallifax has a form of technology but it seems more crystalline and alien rather than this archetype.
* Celest and Gaudiguch don't seem to have this feel, but maybe we'd have to dig deeper.
* Since Communes are rather low-tech I see more limited applications for them, though they may make some use out of them.

Possible areas for Steampunk development.

* Golems and other clockwork automations. Maybe instead of the classic ents they have to be built. Use the figurine item as a base.
* Traps--similar to hunting but more technological, perhaps only in urban and indoor areas. Give users with Stealth the ability to disarm.
* Flying devices--balloons and zeppelins, mechanical wings of flying.
* Bombs--Bombs that can be thrown and release gas, explosive energies, etc.
* Mechanical Weapons--possibilities include repeating crossbows, pneumatic equipment, and classic old firearms.
* Recording Devices.
* Inaccurate Mass weapons--cannons and mortars--stuff that might miss but do a lot of damage when hitting.
* Travel Devices--Trains, Elevators, and Trolleys. (Stuff that gets built in cities for quick transit).


Possible Developments.

* Could be introduced to the Basin with a gnomeish event. Alternately, an abandoned ancient civilization might have developed something and we discover its secrets.
* It would be likely the best Archetypes to use them would be Warriors, as I think the Guardians and Mages would not be as useful. Also, since a lot of gamers feel the Warrior class is at a disadvantage right now, maybe adding this to the repitore might help.
* Perhaps steampunk items are more powerful but have a chance to jam or misfire to make up for it.
* Guns and Bombs might be better if we start introducing a ranged weapon system for warriors.
* Powerful stuff might help with breaking the demense advantage.
* Steampunk might need to be more resource intensive--rather than nexus power, might require commodities. Possible ideas include Powerstones, Particles, a new form of commodity, etc?
* In certain cases, if based more of classic tech, pollution could be a problem, enhancing the city/commune tensions.
* Artifacts to make certain things better or permanent.
* For the communes, introduce fae that might be great at causing sabotage.

Any thoughts?

However it is introduced, it would have to be SLOWLY, over time. Magnagora is the furthest ahead in this, but there is not really a steampunk feel anywhere else. You can't just go POOF New Celest has a factory! There needs to be a lot of adjustment in the Lusternia world (as I perceive it) to accomodate a large increase in steampunk technology, so it has to be done in increments.

I wouldn't worry too much about steampunk not mixing well with the communes. In fact, that's an awesome point--the cities advance into steampunk, while the communes steadfastly refuse to accept it. Little gadgets might slip in here or there, or they might find some "natural" way to channel and use steam power, but I don't see it a problem at all to have the communes well behind in steampunk advances.

And I wouldn't worry about mages and guardians using steampunk. The Eberron campaign world for DnD3.5 is amazing for its mix of technology and magic.

An apology in advance, as I was not formerly familiar with the "Steampunk" genre until a recent web browse into regrEtsy (there were a few DIY crafts listed under steampunk). Is this genre a fashion, art, or literary movement? What would be considered the seminole work, or who is considered the founder?

Sorry... I was mildly curious before, and now more so that it may have links to Lusternia.

The best explanation for Steampunk is on Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steampunk

I hate the term "-punk" applied to things--punk sort of means "attitude", but it was a derivative of Cyberpunk. It's basically considering an alternate take of technology, or from the Wiki article Works of steampunk often feature anachronistic technology or futuristic innovations as Victorians may have envisioned them; in other words, based on a Victorian perspective on fashion, culture, architectural style, art, etc. This technology may include such fictional machines as those found in the works of H. G. Wells and Jules Verne or real technologies like the computer but developed earlier in an alternate history.

You see this influence in more modern fantasy games. Torchlight, for instance, features magicks as well as primitive guns and clockwork entities.

Basically, for a fantasy game, a "steampunk" influence involves some alternate form of technology, if it generated differently from how it did in the real world, and perhaps mixed with magic. You might have steam engines, for instance, but not gunpowder. Or you might have clockwork that are akin to robots. In Lusternia, the Gnomish Tech is probably the best form of this, as well as some things like the gas lamps in Magnagora and the crystal-gem influenced magic-tech of Hallifax.

Steampunk is a time period. Steampunk fashion is fashion from the steampunk time, influenced by the technologies, mores and culture of the time. It is chiefly influenced by novelties like glasses, cheaply dyed cloth, goggles, buckles and zippers which were, up until that period, not widely available. The literature, likewise, deals with the issues of the time, namely industrialization, hopes of a better tomorrow by way of technology, the destitute condititions of the poor and so forth. There is not a steampunk art movement, so to speak, but there is a certain aesthetic to it which should be easily recognized.

Just because it's a fictional time period doesn't mean that it doesn't work just like any other, for genre peices.

Now, as to the actual topic; implimenting steampunk into Lusternia, the fact of the matter is that we probably shouldn't. Lusternia is not at a victorian level of technology. We're much, much higher. Celest only lacks factories and steampunk do-dads because they're a backwater religious theocracy that isn't interested in that nonesense, not because they couldn't make them. Hallifax doesn't do it because they already have built better stuff. Gaudiguch doesn't do it because horses are cheaper than a horseless wagon, and the city is already lit up with fires because it's constantly on fire. Seren and Glomdoring don't have, or want, the infrastructure. Magnagora is the only one that has it, not because they're more advanced, but because they're the only ones that care to have it.

Oh god is that a loaded question. The whole idea is a complete mess as far as unified vision. It's a literary movement that's turned into a fashion and art thing. It's speculative fiction usually, an alternative history. What if the steam engine was never replaced and modern technology was replicated by Victorian tech and society. Generally. It is also gluing parts of clocks to your boots. Because why the hell not. It takes a lot of its atheistic from the works of H.G. Wells and Jules Verne. Steampunk has sort of lost the "punk" part of it, unlike cyberpunk. Lots of people refer to things being in the steampunk style if it just has clockwork and steam powered devices as a theme. But a lot of early writing did deal with the bigger issues of dystopian societies, oppressive governments, struggle of the people, ect. Some stuff does though. Perdido Street Station by China Mieville is a book that includes the punk part of steampunk and I know has been cited as one of the many inspirations behind some of Magnagora's style. For example there is a criminal class in the book known as remade, people with steam engines and devices grafted onto them so that they can work as indentured servants.

Celest is decidedly not 'backwater'. In terms of technology, Celest had been at the fore of R&D for much of the Empire, while supporting projects in Hallifax and Gaudiguch.

Celest doesn't need steampunk because the same thing can be achieved with magic - they're a highly advanced civilization, they can achieve most anything they need to with magic, enchantments, aquamancy, cosmic energy/'prayers'/etc.

The same can really be said of Hallifax!

I think the steampunk feel exists even if it isn't technology, that is, fantasy technology. Even the gnomish "technology" seems to revolve around magic. I think Fantasy Steampunk is more or less a fantasy game that does not just sit at the "Late Middle Ages tech + wizards and monsters" sort of idea. It's had an influence on many games, such as the Tabletop Castle Falkenstein and Space 1889, and the computer games like the Thief Series, Arcanum, Torchlight, and Rise of Legends.

I hate the term Steampunk, but it's sort of a term that's stuck.

Hallifax can float, has a flying machine (that we're not allowed to actually use... ), televisions (lightboards), weather monitoring systems, etc...I think at where we are, steam-based technology would be a silly step down. Of course, I think steampunk is kind of nonsensical for the Lusternian world as a whole besides goofy gnome stuff/bits of Magnagora anyway. I feel this way for the reason Eventru just gave about Celest: steampunk era happening in Lusternia doesn't make sense because the same thing can be achieved with magic. Steam engines? Overworked gearage? Sounds like a waste of resources to me!!

Gnomes it has always made sense for because they don't really use much magicky-magic and lean towards the technological-feel side of things. They have always struck me as the sort who build really complex gadgets to make up for their stature, heheh. But the fact of the matter is, there is no divide between technology and magic in this game's world. Magic is science! I guess I could sort of see it as being some sort of quaint little trend for people who wanted to make a big to-do about magicless technology, but I don't know why they would even bother, since it's inevitably just going to be a huge waste of resources/much less efficient than the science/magic blend that has always existed.

Basically, I think it's fine to the extent we have it now. Making it a universal theme that's rooted in every organization? Not so much.

Note that I never said it has to be like the "classic steampunk", but I don't see introduction of things like bombs and clockworks would be that jarring.

Didn't Celest just introduce a mechanical falcon (if I read that quote correctly elsewhere).

Hallifax kind of has a DaVinci meets the Fortress of Solitude thing going on.

The interesting thing is that Lusternia is more or less a post-apocalyptic sort of setting--there's a lot of lost history and I'll bet the Old Celest Empire had a lot of things we don't remember.

I still think all the steampunkiness should stay firmly planted in the gnomes. Besides, if it started to seep out to everywhere else, the gnomes would kind of lose their "foreign" feel. They're different, with their silly over-complicated gadgets. Then they would just be short dudes who annoy us from time to time.

You're more just talking about fantasy tech then. We've got piles of technology bolstered by magic. It is all over the place. Tinkering even has clocks and music boxes but I doubt any of those are pure machine. You need to be an enchanter to make them which suggests you need magical knowledge and ability to make them work. Steampunk is really pretty far from what you're thinking outside of gluing cogs to stuff. But fantasy tech is totally within Lusternia's realm. It is already a large part of what we have in the game.

Then let's not use the term steampunk, I only used it because Estarra said that she was "a fan of Steampunk and would like to incorporate more images and ideas from that genre", in Ask Estarra five. And in giving that, this is why I listed the types of subjects in the first post here.



Hmm. Hallifax isn't the center of the universe, you know. Seriously, without them you wouldn't have the aetherships, as they were the ones who gave us the technology. And remember what the Gnafia was able to do. Without the entire basin you wouldn't have been able to defeat them. They have ships that can't be shot down, can override the nexii of power and taps the Seals of Avechna! This may be open to interpretation, but I think the gnomes could own the entire Basin, if they were unified and the Elder's weren't there to protect us.

What? Where did that come from? My point was that it's a part of their feel that can't really be separated from them. I don't really want them to just become even more of "generic pool of villains/gag characters". I seriously think that taking their steampunk novelty and spreading a nice covering of it all over the world would lessen the feel that they're fairly alien to us. My feelings towards them are already leaning towards "oh look. Gnomes. Again. Sigh." and would rather not have a facet of their character that sort of does make them special be...un-specialed.

Oh, okay. It kinda sounded like you were doing bragging about Hallifax tech > Gnomish tech. The only reason I brought up the gnomes is that there's a good precedent for them introducing new things, such as Aetherships and the Dingbat items and the golem-like toys.

I meant backwater in the sense of "We neither know, nor care to know why this works." Almost everything in Celest works like that, from the Coral Tower in the Inner Sea (Who built it? How does it work? Why does a giant tower full of glowing squid keep Ladantine out of the ocean?) to the reefs (Who made a bunch of magical reefs that change the colour of firefly squid? How? Why?) to the Star of Celest (Why does the faith of the people manifest as a giant star? How was it made? Is it possible to make more stars? Were all stars built like this? What keeps them afloat?) to magic necklaces that the kelpies make (What sort of fae magic?) to the Beacons (Why giant pearls? Why Roberto? Where did he even come from?) to water elementals (Who made the hummingbirds and water balls? How are these even made? Can we make more?) to the Light Elementals (Seriously, WTF, light isn't even an element). If you get any answer, it's "I dunno, never thought about it." or "Faith."

So, while Celest certainly has technology, they don't have that essence of innovation that is required for steampunking. If Celest's technology improves, it's because they're rediscovered something Old Celest built, not because they've invented some new clockwork contraption that runs on prayers.

E: Whoops. Steakpunking is a typo. A delicious typo.

Normally I wouldn't comment on a typo but I couldn't resist.



Why does this make me think of Cows or Butchers with attitude.

All interesting topics Celest can explore! I know a lot of the answers, a lot of them can be discerned from the quests (octopuses grab the squid and freaks and sprays coloured ink, and the squid changes to match it), and a lot of it seems self explanatory (why pearls? Instead of what, glowing diamond spheres? Because they're a sea-people, of course!). And I don't know where you even got Light Elementals from.

And the lack of innovation is more a result of the playerbase than the actual culture of Celest as an organization, I imagine.

Though we're getting terribly off-topic, now.

Magi-tech? So then, Final Fantasy (in most incarnations) is steampunk. Something tells me most steampunkers would reject that assertion.