Interorganization Communication

by Unknown

Back to Common Grounds.

Saran2011-02-20 16:06:09
QUOTE (Ileein @ Feb 21 2011, 01:12 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Whereas we, the Institute, attract most of the cold, hard liner types. I do promise you that were my character someone else our interactions might well have gone differently, but the default stance of Halifax in both the histories and the modern game seems to have been one of dismissal. I, as a player, enjoy Iytha (even.when our shameless making stuff up is working at cross purposes), but I would be lax if I ignored the whole dismissing thing. Sorry!


I've never read this from the histories. Hallifax was consistently portrayed as cold, logical, cautious and above all focused on... appearances is perhaps the right word.

Their caution is why they did not fully support cosmic hope. If different people were in charge, more compelling arguments for the project, fewer compelling arguments against it or simply data showing the risks being acceptable compared to the benefits then they may have been fully involved from the beginning.

The ankrag situation is logical, they believe they have a claim on the mine as they need the gems, the dwarves claim all the mines. So... they elect to follow the procedures put in place to deal with such things. Then they try to make deals, which become a bit more... frantic? when the importance of the first three traits diminishes and they move onto...

Appearance, hallifax is big and shiny and pretty and has dark secrets that it wants to keep hidden from even its own citizens. But when situations arise that might cause issues in regards to their appearance they will generally try to resolve this as "quickly" as possible, that city of solid crystal spires will bend more than they might otherwise be willing to if only for the possibility of future gains.

Which is potentially the actual reason Llisilli talked to Rowena, to try to make her believe that hallifax was in a difficult situation and that they had to do something they didn't actually want to. (For some reason "pity the gelth" came to mind when writing that)

To me, it seems that hallifax followed this throughout the taint wars at least. The belief that they are being dismissive of others would indicate a level of hubris which seems out of place in a culture that rejects lower emotions.

My memories of Cririk generally follow this, I guess. One that stands out being his comments about the servants who were trying to make bureaucratic decisions, on one hand you can say that he is being dismissive of them, on the other he is simply following the logic that they are servants and not bureaucrats so they have no right to make such decisions, it's not really dismissive just clinging to logic and policy.


Wow... unintentional wall of text. But anyway, hallifax just seemed to be bureaucrat jokes and the emotions line only being pulled out when someone was angry, has anything actually changed?

Anyway, hiding behind fauxreaucracy just serves to make the funny bureaucrat play lame. (Unless you are actually going to come up with a system which someone truly dedicated could navigate AND enforce it across the board for foreigners)
Neos2011-02-20 16:06:22
I want a forcefield dog now.
Ushaara2011-02-20 16:44:26
I understand your frustration, and to be honest the Sentinel Company has actually benefitted from communication with Gaudi before. Back when the date randomly jumped forward Aloysha did a report on possible causes, before the Institute claimed credit. One of the possibilities he considered were the Illuminati, results below (which naturally I'm not in a position to give you IG) but which might give you ideas on a direction to take.

If this is all about your proposed Muian (sp?) aeonic study thing from the public post, I think you can also relate this to what happens in real academic circles. The 'publish, or perish' attitude means you do not collaborate with your rivals, nor do you use dubious sources of data. I would suggest you go ahead and publish your own research from the Mu Labs or whatever and force Hallifax into trying to repudiate your results. The vicious flurry of contrary research back and forth is something you see in real academic circles, and I'd love to see it occur in game.

Honestly, while I love Hallifax, I'm quite jealous of the RP potential in Gaudi. I even tried alting there for a bit but was disheartened because I never located the clique that played to the RP I was expecting (unsure if they even exist at all). Anyway, point I'm trying to make is that you don't need the Institute or Hallifax's assistance to create rich academic discourse.

Good luck!

QUOTE
"Sentinel Company Incident Reports", By the Sentinels Guild (Page 6)

=========================
Induced Temporal Skipping
=========================

=========
Overview:
=========
The following report details the temporal anomaly event of the period
270-273 CE. At the turn of the New Year, time accelerated and the Basin
underwent temporal skipping, experiencing the New Year and other events
numerous times. The Company's preliminary analysis of possible causes
for this event is detailed below.


===============
Company Report:
===============

Incident Report SC-S-271/273
By Peacekeeper Aloysha La'Saet
------------------------------

At the last hour of the year 270, an anomaly occured: The year
progressed ahead to the year 273, rather than to 271 as expected. Three
suspects were established:

- a misweave
- the Illuminati
- temporal experimentation

A misweave report was submitted and we waited for word from the Fates
about the possibility of a misweave. Until the Fates reported back to
us, we could only investigate other possibilities.

The Illuminati had caught my suspicion due to their leader: Chixsanga.
She had, soon after the anomaly, been reaged to her original age after
having, allegedly, been deaged to a state of extreme youth by the
Fleshpots of Vortex. I am privately suspicous of this claim, but played
along.

Chixsanga, prior to the anomaly, had been deaged to be tweleve years of
age and then aged, by the progression of time, to fourteen. During the
anomaly, Chixsanga aged, as did everyone else, ahead two years. After
this, Chixsanga was aged by an Institute researcher who she refused to
name to the age of twenty-one.

Chixsanga claims that the original deaging, from 16 when she exited the
portal to the age of 12, was the result of experimentation with the
Fleshpots Lovashi and Uurulu. After extensive questioning, Chixsanga
eventually agreed to send me her notes regarding the Fleshpots. They
have been enclosed.

It is my conclusion that Chixsanga is not, so far as I can tell, the
cause of the S-271/273 anomaly. She is merely a violator of various
laws. This leaves an experiment or a misweave.

<<< EXTRA STUFF ABOUT INSTITUTE &
BEGINNINGS OF REPORT ON TEMPORAL EXPOSURE >>>>

This concluded Sentinel Company investigations of the event.


===========================
Supplemental Documentation:
===========================

Supplemental Document 1
-----------------------

]

"Through the use of ribbachi, I have managed to successfully draw
aggressive behaviour from each fleshpot of the Vortex without drawing
aggression towards myself from both the fleshpots and the other denizens
of Vortex.

Two fleshpots have drawn my attention in particular - Lovashi and
Uurulu. Lovashi has proven to be the most powerful in terms of defensive
capability, perhaps owing to the abundance of care it receives from
fellow guild members.

Experimentation with Lovashi proved to be the easiest, as it is
considered one of the most basic flesh pieces to manipulate. After
feeding the fleshpot in our usual manner, I withdrew flesh from one of
the newest-grown petals and imbued it with power from my own reserves,
before preparing my flesh for transmological alterations.

The result was unexpected - my scales grew softer, the chamber appeared
to grow larger, my robes became uncomfortably heavy. I suspect a surge
of power had passed through the Plane, somehow - but lacking proper
equipment, and given the plane's constant state of flux, I would be
unable to discern it from my own eye.

A second experiment - a failed one - occurred with Uurulu. Considered
the most advanced flesh, uurulu was beyond my capabilities of altering,
so such efforts were abandoned.

However, provoking assault from Uurulu - in the event that my ribbachi
was not destroyed outright - revealed that, among its variety of
attacks, the fleshpot has an attack that causes a lengthy blackout and a
rather lengthier affliction of aeon.

Considering that Uurulu is housed in the 'Chamber of the Unseen', this
raises a great variety of questions as to Uurulu's true functions, as it
is largely considered to be the flesh that manipulates auras..."

The fleshpot's defensive response appeared thusly:

The Fleshpot of Uurulu's aura spreads outwards, enveloping you in its
light.

]

Bearing a tender resemblance to the lotus flower, the Fleshpot of Uurulu
grows up from the ground on a tender, semi-erect stalk of transparent
flesh. Great leaves of calloused skin fan out from its base, looking
vaguely like lily pads, floating delicately across the semi-consistent
ground upon which the fleshpot grows. Casting a faint glow of prismatic
colours, the aura of light about the Fleshpot of Uurulu swirls and
changes haphazardly with a sudden twist into an entirely new display.
Perhaps made worse by the proffered light, the transparent flesh of the
stem reveal countless streams of pulsating fluid and taught tendons,
semi-translucent muscle and tissue drawn about the bundles of macabre
mishmash of half-formed organs, pulsating glands and even the odd,
squirming creature within that resembles a hungering parasite. The
source of the glow radiates gently from the seed cup of the flower,
surrounded by swaying petals, some of a pink, weeping tissue and others
formed of smooth skin, each petal a different tone and colour.

I am beginning to approach the edge at which it becomes imprudent to
grant you further information beyond what I currently have, so I hope
your theories reach a conclusion soon.

In addition, the time leap appears to have decayed the furniture in our
post office. I shall be writing the Institute a strongly worded letter
of disapproval, along with a copy of the bill so that the loss can be
recompensated and our postal wakabi service can continue to run
smoothly.

-Chixsanga

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


Edit: I've just re-read the thread and see that Noola has already pointed out everything I said in a better fashion. Hopefully the point is made though.
Unknown2011-02-20 16:59:30
This is the first I've heard of this, outside from the market announcements and public news post - which, to be honest, I thought was just a complete joke trying to make fun of Hallifax. If Iytha approached Wuy, I don't think I'd take her seriously but I'd also be very cautious.
Unknown2011-02-20 17:10:48
QUOTE (Shou @ Feb 20 2011, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
This is the first I've heard of this, outside from the market announcements and public news post - which, to be honest, I thought was just a complete joke trying to make fun of Hallifax. If Iytha approached Wuy, I don't think I'd take her seriously but I'd also be very cautious.

You guys got a nerd complex over there or what? cow.gif
Unknown2011-02-20 17:16:45
QUOTE (AllergictoSabres @ Feb 20 2011, 12:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You guys got a nerd complex over there or what? cow.gif


Totez!!
Unknown2011-02-20 17:41:31
QUOTE (Shou @ Feb 20 2011, 06:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Totez!!

Just remember that not everyone is here to kick sand in your face and call you four eyes. biggrin.gif
Unknown2011-02-20 17:47:49
For those curious, the experiment in question is to see if Newcomb's Paradox is in effect with regards to Aeonics by having one or more aeonicists stand in for the all-knowing predictor in the thought experiment. So, I do sorta need an aeonicist for the experiment; it isn't viable to publish anything besides "Here's a neat experiment, but the Institute was too chicken to let me try it on them." without actual Hallis helping me.
Noola2011-02-20 17:47:54
QUOTE (Ushaara @ Feb 20 2011, 10:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If this is all about your proposed Muian (sp?) aeonic study thing from the public post, I think you can also relate this to what happens in real academic circles. The 'publish, or perish' attitude means you do not collaborate with your rivals, nor do you use dubious sources of data. I would suggest you go ahead and publish your own research from the Mu Labs or whatever and force Hallifax into trying to repudiate your results. The vicious flurry of contrary research back and forth is something you see in real academic circles, and I'd love to see it occur in game.



I've always thought this would be fun to see happen and would be an awesome form of alternative to bloodshed conflict. Then again, it'd kinda be funny/awesome if someone got ganked and when they died, their attacker said, "I read your paper on the dynamics of magic induced weather and your research was so shoddy I had to come do something about it!"

laugh.gif
Noola2011-02-20 17:51:44
QUOTE (Greleag @ Feb 20 2011, 11:47 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
For those curious, the experiment in question is to see if Newcomb's Paradox is in effect with regards to Aeonics by having one or more aeonicists stand in for the all-knowing predictor in the thought experiment. So, I do sorta need an aeonicist for the experiment; it isn't viable to publish anything besides "Here's a neat experiment, but the Institute was too chicken to let me try it on them." without actual Hallis helping me.



So, work on other stuff first. Publish lots of things to build up your cred as a researcher. Heck, the US and Russia collaborated on space stuff after a while, so why shouldn't Gaudi and Halli wind up working together on something once some confidence was built up that neither side was looking to ruin the other? It's like the day after sputnik launched, the US called up Russia and said, "Hey guys! Let's work on a manned rocket together!"

Or something.

I'm hungry so my analogy making suffers. laugh.gif


ETA: Oh, and don't scientists publish papers on theories that they can't physically test but because the math works out, they have are confident it works? Publish your paper, detailing how it should work, why it should work, all the details of the whys and wherefors and stuff... and yes. Explain that an actual experiment is impossible at this time and why. Then, if Hallifax calls your stuff bogus, tell them that if they can't back up their claim with actual witnessed results, your theory stands and the only way to disprove it publicly and lay the controversy to rest would be to publicly conduct the experiment. They can refuse, and leave you able to say they're just being petty cause you're right or they can accept, this validating you as a scientist.
Unknown2011-02-20 17:57:24
QUOTE (Noola @ Feb 20 2011, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So, work on other stuff first. Publish lots of things to build up your cred as a researcher. Heck, the US and Russia collaborated on space stuff after a while, so why shouldn't Gaudi and Halli wind up working together on something once some confidence was built up that neither side was looking to ruin the other? It's like the day after sputnik launched, the US called up Russia and said, "Hey guys! Let's work on a manned rocket together!"

Or something.

I'm hungry so my analogy making suffers. laugh.gif

Yeah... go eat. biggrin.gif Russia and the U.S worked together because they both realized they were making progress and wanted to keep tabs on one another. With Hallifax's mentality, they think no one else is capable of understanding science to their level... So (in Hallifax's mind) it's more like someone from Jamaica going to CERN and asking to play with the LHC.
Noola2011-02-20 18:02:39
QUOTE (AllergictoSabres @ Feb 20 2011, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah... go eat. biggrin.gif Russia and the U.S worked together because they both realized they were making progress and wanted to keep tabs on one another. With Hallifax's mentality, they think no one else is capable of understanding science to their level... So (in Hallifax's mind) it's more like someone from Jamaica going to CERN and asking to play with the LHC.



Pfft, if Jamaica suddenly started producing enough really awesome scientific research, I bet CERN would let em. But yeah, I'm fixin my lunch now. laugh.gif
Neos2011-02-20 18:05:14
QUOTE (Noola @ Feb 20 2011, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've always thought this would be fun to see happen and would be an awesome form of alternative to bloodshed conflict. Then again, it'd kinda be funny/awesome if someone got ganked and when they died, their attacker said, "I read your paper on the dynamics of magic induced weather and your research was so shoddy I had to come do something about it!"

laugh.gif

laugh.gif
Ileein2011-02-20 18:27:51
Your argument was interesting, but allow me to present my carefully-researched rebuttal! *stabs*
Lilia2011-02-20 18:53:28
I think the main problem with your proposal is that it's impossible to conduct this experiment and get meaningful results without admin involvement. At least, that was my thought when I read it. If you really want to do this, which would be pretty cool to see, talk to Elostian. If it's not something that the Admin would rather keep ambiguous, I'm sure he could nudge certain Hallis to play along.
Unknown2011-02-20 19:14:28
I'm not sure if you noticed when you contacted Phoebus about it, but she was very confused and hadn't heard anything about everyone giving you the run-around until she asked the Board "since when do we have a department of (whatever it was)?" and then was told they were pretty much playing a huge prank on you. The entire time they were telling her to just pass you off onto someone else, but instead her response was just "oh um, I'm not sure that department exists?" Think of her kind of like the kid who is trying to fit in with the cool crowd but is a little too nice to do so. laugh.gif

I guess you could kind of take that as a small example of how the Aeromancers tend to be a bit more...open-minded? than the other guilds in Hallifax. She totally did not want to just dismiss you, especially since she had no idea what you were even after, but felt like it was her duty and trusted the other members of the Board to have a legitimate reason for doing so.

But that really isn't to say she would be a bro and help you get what you wanted- she probably wouldn't. But obstructive bureaucracy isn't her style, and she prefers to just be up front with her no's. Which is better, I think. Efficiency!

I think Ushaara's idea is great, about research being published back and forth! It sounds like it would be fun to watch.
Prav2011-02-23 16:35:23
Iytha, as a player, I like you and I'd like to think we get along.

But, you can't expect the Institute to be cooperative in your pursuit to study temporal sciences any more than a Celestine can expect a Nihilist to help them study Demon Lords. The Institute is the organization devoted to temporal sciences, if you want to study temporal science with their full blessing, join it!

There are many, many avenues for scientific study outside of areas that are the domain of the Institute. You could study Paradigmatics and Transmology with little difficulty and full cooperation... as would be expected of an Illuminati. However, expecting full - or even partial - disclosure about the fundamental concepts of a guild from an organization that is the game-designated enemy of your organization just seems a bit naive.
Unknown2011-02-23 18:04:12
QUOTE (Prav @ Feb 23 2011, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Iytha, as a player, I like you and I'd like to think we get along.

But, you can't expect the Institute to be cooperative in your pursuit to study temporal sciences any more than a Celestine can expect a Nihilist to help them study Demon Lords. The Institute is the organization devoted to temporal sciences, if you want to study temporal science with their full blessing, join it!

There are many, many avenues for scientific study outside of areas that are the domain of the Institute. You could study Paradigmatics and Transmology with little difficulty and full cooperation... as would be expected of an Illuminati. However, expecting full - or even partial - disclosure about the fundamental concepts of a guild from an organization that is the game-designated enemy of your organization just seems a bit naive.


Don't say that so fast. I'm fairly confident Mag has allowed Celestians (albeit, young midbies) around to do guided research. It's the "we hope you'll learn the truth" mentality. I can't say to what extent things were pursued, but yeah. Iytha was also a prominent member of Elo's order (or at least Sahm perceives her that way).
Razenth2011-02-23 18:47:38
I was a Celestine and I didn't have too much problems bugging Mags to talk to me. So tbh, it's probably just Hallifax being snooty.

Likewise, I think Iytha asked me stuff when I was Celestine GM (and I answered) !
Prav2011-02-23 18:51:22
QUOTE (Razenth @ Feb 23 2011, 01:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I was a Celestine and I didn't have too much problems bugging Mags to talk to me. So tbh, it's probably just Hallifax being snooty.

Oh well, suppose I'll have to get over people thinking we're snooty.

We're all but hard coded to be highly secretive elitists, you can't expect to just knock on our door and be greeted with a complimentary box of secrets.