If you want to discuss what hurts/helps conflict in Lusternia, that's fine. If you want to take jabs at orgs or other players, we'll have to lock the thread. We're definitely inching close to that line.

I don't think anyone's been particularly mean spirited, but in giving advice, you also need to give out criticism heh.

Though I think a healthy jab spices things up every so often.

I think it's a bit more common than that, I know that's how I feel at least. Starting fights just for the sake of beating somebody that doesn't stand a chance is nothing more then bullying.



Rar rar rar mother ing double BM pinleg spam.

EDIT: I should just make my sig " Pinleg" I say it in game so much. D:

I don't want to quote Sidd's entire post.

I agree that choke can be deadly to the choker but only in the situations where sufficient numbers exist to take down the choker. More often than not, that is simply not the case. Choke's involvement in the group combat context more often than not is allowing the choker's allies to drop the choked party within 15-20 seconds whereas without choke they often would take several minutes to obtain the same result. The ease of locking a person in that shortened window is not offered by any other attack as easily.

Just noticed Shuyin's response.

I love how you all are quick to mention how easy it is to escape choke. For anything less than a capable combatant, it is quite difficult. The fact that choke (like all aeons) eats commands if you do not know what you are doing only exacerbates this. I won't even mention how your groups are fond of stacking perfect fifth with choke either.

From my personal perspective, choke is the thing that turns me off about combat the most. It is extremely disheartening to try to learn to deal with given the items I mentioned above.

<3 Thank you!

List of things I feel hurt combat:

enemy territory deaths for demigods.

Raiders do not mind dying in a fight. In fact dying makes them want to continue fighting. We mind 2 mil + experience loss. So we take every extra step to live and avoid it. If that means we jump in pwn your face and run away, then we do it. With that penalty gone, I guarantee you'd see many people fight to the death and not care about dying but care about going until the end or until defence repels them.

Maybe it's just me, but I find defence can get destroyed, but so long as you kill the attackers by the end, you feel better about it. It's a morale thing.

distort is getting absurdly strong by the way

If the death wasn't harsh and you died, wouldn't you just reincarnate and get back to the raid in a matter of seconds a lot of the times?

I guess I just don't understand what's so hard (granted 1v1 is an entirely different beast and choke is hilarious there too) about everyone having a choke trigger to call out someone getting choked and then doing your best to save your buddy. Even with the dreaded choke/fifth. Trigger - Shadows leap from Sidd to Bill - Action - highlight a bright color, echo 3 times, clan switch ironhart, clt Bill is choked, save his ass!

RE: death - I think every time you die, you have to do a pray sequence that takes you out of the fight for a minute or two. The ease and speed at which you can phoenix or reincarnate makes demis (who are typically the good fighters) get back into the fray quickly, thereby prolonging the fight. I also think conglut should slow down as well for similar reasons.

raiders get tired too you know. personally if I die for 2 million I go straight back for the rageraid

Right Choke makes it easier, as does multitudes of other skills within this game. Choke by itself does nothing more than delay commands, it's the addition of other people that makes it deadly. I mean, you have a bunch of warriors that can pound on someones head to give slitthroat/windpipe combined with aeon for an easy aeon lock too that acheives similar results. Pfifth works for everyone, in every situation, but Enyalida just escaped a fifth/choke by headbutting krellan away, to set up a tumble (aerys tackled her away I think) but she stopped the pfifth. Choke is just one of many skills that are useful in the right situation, I don't see why choke is any more powerful than setting up a slitthroat/throatlock/windpipe+aeon combo especially given that it affects the caster too.

People who know what they're doing in Celedoring:
Shuyin, Narynth, Viynain, Nydekion, Malicia, Veyrzhul, Talan, Krellan, Vadi, Sidd

People who know what they're doing in Magnaserafax:
Esano, Estwald, Malarious, Rika, Asmodea, Lehki, Destridas, Marie, Solanis, Sahmiam, Thalkros, Ixion, Lothringen

This is from what I've seen and people who have been recently active. Honestly in combat I don't know what I'm doing, in groups I'm either spamming some of the same stuff over and over or dying. I didn't say shiny skills.

@Tandrin
I know of several skills that can drop pretty much anyone under 20 seconds in a properly coordinated group. I've seen it happen multiple times.

It does much more than delay commands. It limits the number of things you can do as well so essentially you have to choose to forgo normal curing. Some other abilities do this too, but the majority of those can be cured much more simply.

As for your warrior example, I don't think we need to get in a discussion of how difficult warrior combat can be with misses, stancing, parrying, the RNG factor. Choke obviously faces none of these obstacles. It is just a matter of getting the shadows out and using the minimal power cost.

Choke is a horrifically bad skill, and the fact that I'm not walking into it in Celest was a big incentive to get more active in fighting.

That's not to say Glom wouldn't win regardless. They have a lot of high end, high credit players who have jammed themselves together in one org. Part of that is, it got to the point where some of the good combatants moved to be with other good combatants, and some of the very best group skills in the game. Heck, Desi even bailed on VA in Celest to go join.

But for me, having been on the other side, Choke is definitely one of those "Lusternia would be a better place overall without it" things.

as I said Choke by itself isn't going to do much, it's the combination of choke+other skills, you don't automatically die when you get choked. It's not that hard to prone someone then lay down the hurt on them as a warrior, come on man, you guys do it a lot. Stop treating choke like it's some instakill with no req's. Choke is no worse than any other combo that people gripe about.

Akui pretty much summarizes my viewpoints entirely.

I really think choke needs some kind of fix. The last envoy report on choke (report 419) even indicated choke was going to be reviewed. I don't believe that any changes resulted or that review has been complete. Please make some changes to limit choke's excesses or atleast give Moon a skill that would cure choke for a power cost. The ability for us to somehow to clear shadows after you all have left the area would be nice too.

The only difference is that you guys can Choke and simultaneously beat the hell out of someone, we have to react to that. We can speed that reaction up and practice it, but you are the final arbiter of when you drop the Chokehammer on someone. The same way doing it wrong gets you killed, doing it right is a really easy kill. You didn't get where you are today by doing things wrong a lot.

Dude! You completely left out the 'fax' in the Magnaserafax. I'm feeling left out. I grief too you know!

I wouldn't really call mine a "view". But it is an apprasial of sorts on how the nature of the ability sort of makes people not want to bother. I mean, at least now I can get the aeon curing. With my old system, choke WAS a death sentence. It basically was, "this one thing happens, and you're done fighting". So why bother? Why give yourself the aggrivation?

In Celest, sure, there's balestone, and chasm, and more monks hitting me, and even a whole guild that revolves around aeon locks to put up with. And pollute. But I'll take all of that, all of that, is less of a deterrent for me to get involved in fighting than choke was. I've been having a lot more fun in the last few months fighting in general, and while there are a whole bunch of factors in that, not getting choked (and not spamming a reenemy alias to catch gloomtide) are definitely included in the list.

it's not a reaction to it if you're targetting the choker. Choker's only choke because they're not being targetted.

noob

About the aeon lock thing, that actually takes a lot more work than choke since you have to beat them down enough that they can't sip phlegmatic right away. In otherwords, the target of an aeon lock under those conditions would be almost dead anyway, whereas the target of a choke can be fully healthy.