Just being a guild favour would be enough for most people, it could literally be just a guildfavour that happens to tattoo you at the same time.

Another possibility might be that if you have one, guild members in squads with you gain more xp though that might be awkward to code. Could also extend to commune/city tattoos, the effect being combined if you have both for members of your squad who share guild and nation (just for the possibility that the former is true while the latter is not)

The reasoning I see is that you are "obviously an experienced member of x" and so people learn more from exploring with you, though ymmv in cases where an org tattooed person is in a squad and receiving the benefit.

Just scanning through the latter posts here. Let me see if I got this right. A guild can buy one tattoo and the three leaders are able to ink that one tattoo and it'll function just like a normal tattoo?

Would it be possible to allow guilds to have more than one tattoo, BUT only one guild tattoo can be on a person at a time. This way we can have different tattoos for different ranks, but still won't cut into tattooist business any.

I love the idea of tattoos, and especially from a guild perspective it meshes nicely with the Serenguard - all our ranks are warpaints, etc. So having guild tattoos for different ranks would be cool.

From the sound of things, I'm just going to pass on any org tattoos. I'd have to completely design around it and that simply isn't going to happen, especially when I'd have to redo it if I switched guilds.

The RP potential of org tattoos is pretty awesome, but it runs directly onto the shoals of tattoos also having a mechanical function.

EDIT @Turnus: Guilds can apparently buy as many as they want, although if it's as pricey as chops, I doubt any are really going to stock up.

As planned, I don't really see the complaint - if you don't want the tattoo, don't take it. Personally if I were the Hartstone GM or GA or what have you, I'd go for a face tattoo - it's one of the least likely place someone would've gotten one done already, make it something useful for everyone (+ cutting damage, maybe). I'd probably also do a neck tattoo (same bonus), and give them out at gr1 and gr3. Helps their bashing a bit, and what have you.

Maybe do a big 100 weight tattoo with something most the guild agrees is useful, for a gr5 reward or something.

I'd probably go crazy though, buying all sorts of org tattoos in different variations for different paths.

If we go through with Org Tattoos and Order Tattoos, I'll probably do something akin to that for my order. *pet preciouses*

I think it's more, guilds can buy as many tattoos as they like but it's uber expensive and everything is set in stone once it's done.

So a rampant jaguar chest tattoo with 100 weight and cutting buff could be applied by the leadership, but that's it unless they buy another one. If effects are divorced from designs then this is a major restriction.

This is only true though if they work with the current system of weights and the like, if they were outside of it with their own effect then it would be something unique from the system.

Eh, considering how much money guilds have (at least the ones that have been around for awhile), its not that big of an issue. Rewarding somebody who got gr2 and bought expensive fieldplate, masterweapons, etc with a free buff sounds like a good use of guild funds that are otherwise just sitting around to me.

I can see the Serenguard actually using tattoos and incorporating it in ceremonies for rp AND providing a tangible benefit for people to work up through ranks. Though for chops, not so much (I still don't really know what they are even).

I'm curious what the ballpark range of prices will be, 100-300k for the design?

A chop certificate for an org is 500k, and only provides a minor RP benefit. I'd consider that a floor expectation in terms of price.

The tattoo thing definitely works better for some guilds more than others, I definitely see the two druid and forest warriors making use of these, as well as Gaudiguch in an expression of enlightenment in the form of body art, I suppose Hallifax as well if its viewed for its artistic merit. Hm.

But would you personally have them later on? The cutting would be nice for those who've gotten cudgel but at those ranks there's no guarantee, magic might be the safer bet. Plus then you have people removing them because they want the full cutting/blunt buff but don't want weird weights everywhere.


You'd want that publicly known in the guild because by that state people may have their own personal sets or at the least may end up being something that requires rearrangement.


An excellent reason for them to be outside standard weights, your body can tell the story of your accomplishments in the org without needing to worry about ruining your carefully planned work. Could even have a different version of TATTOOS SHOW which shows org specific tattoos



I really want you to sit back and plan out a tattoo set, then imagine having guild, city/commune AND order tattoos that you may be receiving and try to work them into that. Not just, "well I can get a magic buff from the city" or "I can get fire absorb from the order" but have realistic expectations of a buff that would be given for a certain service to these organisations.

Mkay, thanks.

Yeah, and I vaguely feel like submissions in any org contest or other arbitration might be decided on the basis of powers associated or possible weights/places instead of artistic merit.

When crafting guild advancement or commune advancement, I'd rather have big permanent special shiny guild tattoos be something that's something of a higher rank perk, where you would already have tattoos all over. I get what you are saying Eventru if they are being handed out right out of collegium, and the rest of their tattoos get based around the org tattoo, but I don't feel that it works with the idea of permanently(ish) changing your body...

It all depends, if you haven't already, take a quick look through the tattoos article on the wiki/xiels, there are some things that are just flat out useless, but there are also other things that are nice to have.

What is nice for the combatants might not be great for someone who prefers influence and how would the guild feel about its members removing the tattoos because they want something more personal or the guild tattoos don't suit the way they want to play?

And with the way the system appears to work, a 5 weight facial cutting buff tattoo would either require removal or you'd find people with three tattoos on their back/chest because they had to put 95 cutting on there to keep the guild tattoo and then put 5 of something else, which spreads over to x.

I'm kinda stumped on what to divvy up between my remaining 59 points, probably going to be more absorption though not really sure what to put where, it'd be even more of a headache if I were trying to work around guild tattoos that I'd feel obligated to make room for.

Maybe, maybe not. I might instead do 'advancing tattoos', where you get a for gr1, b for completing task x, and c for completing task y. They're all facial tattoos, and are even designed to build on one another (like a might be leaves, b might be leaves with dewdrops, c might be leaves with dewdrops and a butterfly - random, but I think you get my point), but their benefits might change (+mag, +cutting, whatever).

I think, on average, people are going to have 'weird weights everywhere'.



I don't think I'd make it a secret. Let them know what's ahead of them, sure - or at least available to them should they choose to take them up.



Of all the requested changes, this is certainly my least favourite. I've said before I'm ambivalent on powers being part of inking and not the design itself, but I really don't think any tattoo should be outside the standard weights (it just strikes me as odd, honestly). Though I've never been a fan of changes solely for the sake of roleplay - I'd far prefer they offer some minor mechanical incentive, as well.

Maybe Estarra's just worn off on me!



I'm not sure if cities will be getting organizational tattoos, or just guilds/orders - I don't hear the former mentioned when we discuss 'org tattoos', but I do the latter. That's not really relevant to your argument, though - and I won't be hurt if little ones go off and pick a guild tattoo over an order one. Good for them - order tattoos would be there as options, not requirements.

Alternately, I may simply focus on my godrealm instead. I've been planning to spoil them more with treats there. Don't know - we'll see!

Just a quick post to say I'm way supportive of the (not so little) task of divorcing powers from designs. This will cut down the redundancy of repeated designs for different powers, yay.

Also, woo for the commodity clearance. Sparkletats, go.

Excited for this. My characters have always had tattoos, this is a nifty way to bring a use to them, plus yay monk tradeskill!

^This.

Yeah but the weird weights I'm looking at right now are just because I need to fill up the rest, the useful things that I want to max out I'd prefer to put in places where they fit nicely where the less important things that are just "nice to have" would be stuffed in smaller weight areas to fill up the weights for tattoo armour.



I wasn't actually talking about the divorcing of effect from design in that. Realistically, the weights are just a balancing mechanism to prevent players from getting too great a benefit. If the org tattoos had no benefit or the benefits controlled by the mechanic then there is no need to involve them in said balance mechanism, It's not a role-play thing it's design.

Also if org tattoos have the same benefits as regular tattoos there's no real incentive other than roleplay to get them and there is also a rp disincentive to getting them.



According to a quick search of the thread the only use of the word order in that sense was you (until me just then), no one else. Unless of course there is some behind the scenes talk that you are bringing forward .

I'm looking at my little spreadsheet with all my weights sitting there and trying to imagine the tattoos I want, but I also very much like the idea of having org tattoos and feel that they are a good way to mark accomplishments in the guild. But then I start to worry about what powers they will have and where they will go, how does that affect my design.

Looking at this from the point of view of someone who wants tattoo armour, I am seeing that if I want the guild tattoos, working the way you seem to want them to, I'm going to have to work my design around what the guild has designed, with the expectation that what I tattoo now is only temporary because I will need to have it removed when I actually earn the guild tattoos. Which goes against the desired feeling of permanence with tattoos.

Maybe the org tattoos provide a specific generic buff that is unique to them using an "org weight". If you wanted order tattoos then this could be an additional offering bonus specific to the god of said order, the strength would function off the org weight providing a maximum and incentive to gain more than one. Similarly some buff unique to the guild tattoo (not unique to individual guilds) could scale with their "org weight".

Perhaps I want to have my cake and eat it too, but I just dislike the idea of having to choose between bearing tattoos marking my accomplishments in an org and being able to use the design system to create individual style when I desire. I don't know how well I would be able to do that if I had say... tattoos for completing the Hartstone stones tasks (if they still exist) which could be what... six to thirty-six tattoos?

It also occurs to me that if the org tattoos were indeed just tattoos that guild leaders could give, what's the real difference between spending 500k per tattoo and getting a guild tattoo cartel then inviting in a monk to tattoo someone when they've earned it?

If you're getting more than two tattoos then it would be cheaper to just get a cartel...

If not different bonuses for every Guild, perhaps bonuses for each archetype instead? IE: Bard guilds can have tattoos that increase song length, Mages/Druids get a slight reduction in EQ loss for doing CAST MELD, monks get a small boost to bashing damage in a form, warriors have a minor reduction in endurance drain for their attacks, and guardians and wiccans alleviate a bit of the mana cost of their coven/cosmic skills. Stuff that's nice perks aimed at the archetypes, but nothing that they're really going to miss not having.

I think I'm just going to wait until we can actually see them before trying to find out anything more. I don't think I've gotten one answer yet on this thread that hasn't been redacted or contradicted.

I think you're confusing yourself.

People have asked that tattoos be given special, exclusive powers (ie specific to that guild and that tattoo that no other tattoo/guild would have), which is what Estarra was refuting in your first quote. (It's just not feasible to code a new power for every guild (20 currently), plus for every order, etc)

It would be like any other tattoo - it has a type, a weight and a power (+DMG, +DMP, +reserve cap, etc). It would only be inkable by a GM, GA or GC, and would fade on leaving the guild.