Ytran2011-07-25 23:40:03
Has anyone actually tested out how much the different levels of resistances/weaknesses affect damage to a denizen? Saying things like "I'm screwed if I don't have the right damage types" sounds really off if the difference is something all of, like, 5% damage. You'll bash very slightly slower, sure, but odds are it's not going to be a difference of more than one (or maybe two-three on bigger stuff like late Muud) hits.
Of course, if the numbers are more noticeable, pushing into the 20-30% range, then there's a bit more of an issue. It still feels like panicking is premature, though, unless testing has actually been done.
That said, tuning being PvE only is the best solution to the PvP issue, I'm thinking.
Of course, if the numbers are more noticeable, pushing into the 20-30% range, then there's a bit more of an issue. It still feels like panicking is premature, though, unless testing has actually been done.
That said, tuning being PvE only is the best solution to the PvP issue, I'm thinking.
Xenthos2011-07-25 23:41:39
QUOTE (Ytran @ Jul 25 2011, 07:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Has anyone actually tested out how much the different levels of resistances/weaknesses affect damage to a denizen? Saying things like "I'm screwed if I don't have the right damage types" sounds really off if the difference is something all of, like, 5% damage. You'll bash very slightly slower, sure, but odds are it's not going to be a difference of more than one (or maybe two-three on bigger stuff like late Muud) hits.
Of course, if the numbers are more noticeable, pushing into the 20-30% range, then there's a bit more of an issue. It still feels like panicking is premature, though, unless testing has actually been done.
That said, tuning being PvE only is the best solution to the PvP issue, I'm thinking.
Of course, if the numbers are more noticeable, pushing into the 20-30% range, then there's a bit more of an issue. It still feels like panicking is premature, though, unless testing has actually been done.
That said, tuning being PvE only is the best solution to the PvP issue, I'm thinking.
I was told that Kephs received 30% protection from physical damage, and they have a moderate resistance; so that may help with your question somewhat.
Ytran2011-07-25 23:42:54
Well, then. That's a little bit crazy.
Sylphas2011-07-25 23:59:43
Hmm. That makes me really rethink whether WildeChord is worth using against things with a terrible weakness to divinus, but a resistance to cold. Even at 25% of the attack, if the boost is 50% or something, it might make it worth it.
Saying I'm screwed is just hyperbole, sure, but compared to someone who can just sidestep resistances on almost anything, it's a definite contrast. Once again, I don't really care, but the difference is definitely there. Mages got an extra attack above and beyond anyone else; whether that is an issue is up to how the numbers come out.
Saying I'm screwed is just hyperbole, sure, but compared to someone who can just sidestep resistances on almost anything, it's a definite contrast. Once again, I don't really care, but the difference is definitely there. Mages got an extra attack above and beyond anyone else; whether that is an issue is up to how the numbers come out.
Rika2011-07-26 00:22:24
QUOTE (Sylphas @ Jul 26 2011, 11:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hmm. That makes me really rethink whether WildeChord is worth using against things with a terrible weakness to divinus, but a resistance to cold. Even at 25% of the attack, if the boost is 50% or something, it might make it worth it.
Saying I'm screwed is just hyperbole, sure, but compared to someone who can just sidestep resistances on almost anything, it's a definite contrast. Once again, I don't really care, but the difference is definitely there. Mages got an extra attack above and beyond anyone else; whether that is an issue is up to how the numbers come out.
Saying I'm screwed is just hyperbole, sure, but compared to someone who can just sidestep resistances on almost anything, it's a definite contrast. Once again, I don't really care, but the difference is definitely there. Mages got an extra attack above and beyond anyone else; whether that is an issue is up to how the numbers come out.
If what Xenthos said about the kephera level 2 resistance being 30% is correct, then level 3 should be 45% and level 1 15%. Assuming a mob has level 3 weakness to divinus and level 1 resistance to cold, the overall damage would actually be the same as minorsecond if they have no magic resistance or weakness. However, such mobs probably don't exist.
Xenthos2011-07-26 00:32:03
QUOTE (rika @ Jul 25 2011, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If what Xenthos said about the kephera level 2 resistance being 30% is correct, then level 3 should be 45% and level 1 15%. Assuming a mob has level 3 weakness to divinus and level 1 resistance to cold, the overall damage would actually be the same as minorsecond if they have no magic resistance or weakness. However, such mobs probably don't exist.
Unless it's changed since weaknesses and resistances went in, it should be correct. I got the number from Eventru.
Rika2011-07-26 00:41:51
You know what would be great? If we would be told what the formulas/base damage for working out damage done for the main damage abilities of each class was.
Enyalida2011-07-26 01:12:22
QUOTE (rika @ Jul 25 2011, 07:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know what would be great? If we would be told what the formulas/base damage for working out damage done for the main damage abilities of each class was.
HahahaHaHAha.
No, I'm actually somewhat with admins on this one.
Rika2011-07-26 01:39:43
QUOTE (Enyalida @ Jul 26 2011, 01:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
HahahaHaHAha.
No, I'm actually somewhat with admins on this one.
No, I'm actually somewhat with admins on this one.
I don't see why it's so funny. Most other games I know where balance is important at least tell you exactly how much (base) damage each thing is supposed to be doing.
Eventru2011-07-26 02:12:27
QUOTE (Sylphas @ Jul 25 2011, 07:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Psychic Minorsecond would rock.
But yeah, I'm really not sure why this isn't blatantly obvious. I've got two attacks: 100% magic and 75% cold / 25% divinus. If something is resistant to cold and magic, I'm kind of screwed, even though I have a bit of divinus. A lot of stuff weak to divinus is resistant to cold (and often magic as well). An Aquamancer, on the other hand, has three or more attacks: 100% cold, 100% asphyxiation, 100% blunt, and any combination of those. What creature is resistant to all of those at once?
I'm not particularly upset about it, although 100% asphyxiation in PvP is lols, but it's stunning to see people trying to argue that mages weren't buffed over and above the rest of the basin.
But yeah, I'm really not sure why this isn't blatantly obvious. I've got two attacks: 100% magic and 75% cold / 25% divinus. If something is resistant to cold and magic, I'm kind of screwed, even though I have a bit of divinus. A lot of stuff weak to divinus is resistant to cold (and often magic as well). An Aquamancer, on the other hand, has three or more attacks: 100% cold, 100% asphyxiation, 100% blunt, and any combination of those. What creature is resistant to all of those at once?
I'm not particularly upset about it, although 100% asphyxiation in PvP is lols, but it's stunning to see people trying to argue that mages weren't buffed over and above the rest of the basin.
I can't think of anything off-hand that's resistant to magic and cold, either.
You're in no different a situation than, say, a pyromancer or an aeromancer, as well.
I don't know why you're "Screwed", though - there's very few fights in PvE that you can't walk away from. Not to say "loldon'tbash" - none of the resistances are so crippling you can't fight (except for cold-type against stronger undead and the like) most mobs.
You're picking at tuning, but the base of your argument really seems to be that aquamancers and geomancers have 3 types, and you only have 2. I suppose tuning would be fine, then, for pyros/aeros?
Eventru2011-07-26 02:17:31
QUOTE (rika @ Jul 25 2011, 09:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I don't see why it's so funny. Most other games I know where balance is important at least tell you exactly how much (base) damage each thing is supposed to be doing.
It's just not possible. It's not some basic formula like:
(500 + 5% of their health) / DMP.
It's a rather complex formula that runs through dozens of different functions, scaling in a non-direct manner with stats, and there's really no simplistic way to spell it out - it's something we've said before when monks (Sahmiam particularly) were asking for the formulas.
I will say this: Mage staff, moonburst, symbol strike, gauntlet'd crush, minor second at trans music, ~chord, etc all have identical damage formulas, as far as I know, or near enough that the difference would be a matter of a few points.
I said how much the kephera get (although in hindsight, that may've been a bad choice, but it seemed like something easily guessed at) - however the word choice covers a range of %s, so you can't say "x = 5% y = 15% z = 30%" or any such variation thereof. The best you know is that, gee, kephera are tanky against physical attacks. Boy, who'd have ever thought?
Racials follow the same general pattern as their PC siblings - IE merian are weak to fire and lightning, and resistant to asphyxiation. And so forth.
Malarious2011-07-26 02:34:47
QUOTE (rika @ Jul 25 2011, 08:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You know what would be great? If we would be told what the formulas/base damage for working out damage done for the main damage abilities of each class was.
Hit pet
BEAST INFO
get to max health
increase int
repeat
I used this system to find the health of denizens. Was fun side project before resists/weaknesses,
P.S. Damage rune changes please, or skills in kata/totems/rituals/specs of anyones stuff to adjust things. please
As Eventru noted above this will only give you a base idea because variables are evaluated like 13 int might be a mod of 1.23 while 14 int is 1.33 and 15 is 1.46. But yeah imagine having a formula using 2/3 stats that arent linear
Rika2011-07-26 03:57:40
All I can say is that right now it sucks to be an Aeromancer. They get tuning to play with, except no matter how they use it, it'll never be as good as what the other three mage guilds get to play with.
Lilia2011-07-26 05:38:54
QUOTE (rika @ Jul 25 2011, 10:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All I can say is that right now it sucks to be an Aeromancer. They get tuning to play with, except no matter how they use it, it'll never be as good as what the other three mage guilds get to play with.
If only some reportless envoy would take up our cause. Seriously, someone envoy this, because ours is asleep or something.
Unknown2011-07-26 05:43:16
Yeah, poor Aeros with one of the best melds. Poor mages in general.
Neos2011-07-26 07:36:57
QUOTE (AquaNeos @ Jul 25 2011, 02:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I fully agree tuning is a tad OP in terms of certain damage types, 100% poison is not fun at all, but if dmp for asphyx and poison were to be added, the problem everyone is having really wouldn't be as prevalent.
Look at me saying tuning is fine, in fact, I'm saying it's UP! Buff plz.
Janalon2011-07-26 14:32:17
QUOTE (Malarious @ Jul 25 2011, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
P.S. Damage rune changes please, or skills in kata/totems/rituals/specs of anyones stuff to adjust things. please
As Eventru noted above this will only give you a base idea because variables are evaluated like 13 int might be a mod of 1.23 while 14 int is 1.33 and 15 is 1.46. But yeah imagine having a formula using 2/3 stats that arent linear
As Eventru noted above this will only give you a base idea because variables are evaluated like 13 int might be a mod of 1.23 while 14 int is 1.33 and 15 is 1.46. But yeah imagine having a formula using 2/3 stats that arent linear
Stealth: AcidicCoating An oil to coat a kata weapon with a toxic acid.
Syntax: COAT
Damage Type: Poison
Damage Source: Physical
Amalgamation Cost: 2 percent of power reserves.
The coating of acid will convert 1/3 of the weapon to the poison damage type, and will last one day. This weapon enhancement is mutually exclusive with other skill which alter a kata weapon's damage type.
Ingredients: charybdon 2 mistletoe 10
Psychometabolism: PsychicWeapon* Extend a portion of your psychic energies into your kata weapon.
Virtuoso 0%
Syntax: PSI
Damage Type: Psychic
Damage Source: Physical
Channels: Superstratus, Id
By focusing on your internal psyche, your kata weapon becomes an extension of your mind and convert 1/3 of the weapon to psychic damage type. This weapon enhancement is mutually exclusive with other skill which alter a kata weapon's damage type.
Etc. Etc. Etc. Harmony Kumbaya can get magic enhancement, and acrobatics convert a portion to asphyxiaation (on the basis their limber bodies can knock the wind out of ya. Or something like that. THOUGH, having 2/3rds alternate damage type for monks seems a bit high for monks. I personally wouldn't expect more than 50% damage type mod with the kata weapon's usual cutting/blunt.
Alternately... it would be interesting to handle monk alternate damage through kata mods. For example, Nekotai Nekcree give poison mod damge (though, this would mean monks would need +4mo to have an basic elemental attack while bashing... so probably another crappy idea).
Turnus2011-07-26 15:23:10
If there was a skill introduced to let warriors tune another % of their weapons damage, it would make the most sense to give it to a trade like tinkerers, enchanters, or alchemists and make it a purchasable salve/tinkerable/enchantment that can be coated on a weapon like sharpness and comes in a variety of flavors.
I would also love new the new damage types for warrior runes or giving the option to tune the runes, perhaps a rune can be tuned just once a month so while changeable it can't be done as flexibly as the spellcaster classes.
I would also love new the new damage types for warrior runes or giving the option to tune the runes, perhaps a rune can be tuned just once a month so while changeable it can't be done as flexibly as the spellcaster classes.
vorld2011-07-26 15:38:34
QUOTE (Janalon @ Jul 26 2011, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Stealth: AcidicCoating An oil to coat a kata weapon with a toxic acid.
Syntax: COAT- WITH ACID
Damage Type: Poison
Damage Source: Physical
Amalgamation Cost: 2 percent of power reserves.
The coating of acid will convert 1/3 of the weapon to the poison damage type, and will last one day. This weapon enhancement is mutually exclusive with other skill which alter a kata weapon's damage type.
Ingredients: charybdon 2 mistletoe 10
Psychometabolism: PsychicWeapon* Extend a portion of your psychic energies into your kata weapon.
Virtuoso 0%
Syntax: PSI DOUBLEPAIN
Damage Type: Psychic
Damage Source: Physical
Channels: Superstratus, Id
By focusing on your internal psyche, your kata weapon becomes an extension of your mind and convert 1/3 of the weapon to psychic damage type. This weapon enhancement is mutually exclusive with other skill which alter a kata weapon's damage type.
Etc. Etc. Etc. Harmony Kumbaya can get magic enhancement, and acrobatics convert a portion to asphyxiaation (on the basis their limber bodies can knock the wind out of ya. Or something like that. THOUGH, having 2/3rds alternate damage type for monks seems a bit high for monks. I personally wouldn't expect more than 50% damage type mod with the kata weapon's usual cutting/blunt.
Alternately... it would be interesting to handle monk alternate damage through kata mods. For example, Nekotai Nekcree give poison mod damge (though, this would mean monks would need +4mo to have an basic elemental attack while bashing... so probably another crappy idea).
Syntax: COAT
Damage Type: Poison
Damage Source: Physical
Amalgamation Cost: 2 percent of power reserves.
The coating of acid will convert 1/3 of the weapon to the poison damage type, and will last one day. This weapon enhancement is mutually exclusive with other skill which alter a kata weapon's damage type.
Ingredients: charybdon 2 mistletoe 10
Psychometabolism: PsychicWeapon* Extend a portion of your psychic energies into your kata weapon.
Virtuoso 0%
Syntax: PSI
Damage Type: Psychic
Damage Source: Physical
Channels: Superstratus, Id
By focusing on your internal psyche, your kata weapon becomes an extension of your mind and convert 1/3 of the weapon to psychic damage type. This weapon enhancement is mutually exclusive with other skill which alter a kata weapon's damage type.
Etc. Etc. Etc. Harmony Kumbaya can get magic enhancement, and acrobatics convert a portion to asphyxiaation (on the basis their limber bodies can knock the wind out of ya. Or something like that. THOUGH, having 2/3rds alternate damage type for monks seems a bit high for monks. I personally wouldn't expect more than 50% damage type mod with the kata weapon's usual cutting/blunt.
Alternately... it would be interesting to handle monk alternate damage through kata mods. For example, Nekotai Nekcree give poison mod damge (though, this would mean monks would need +4mo to have an basic elemental attack while bashing... so probably another crappy idea).
QUOTE (Turnus @ Jul 26 2011, 10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If there was a skill introduced to let warriors tune another % of their weapons damage, it would make the most sense to give it to a trade like tinkerers, enchanters, or alchemists and make it a purchasable salve/tinkerable/enchantment that can be coated on a weapon like sharpness and comes in a variety of flavors.
I would also love new the new damage types for warrior runes or giving the option to tune the runes, perhaps a rune can be tuned just once a month so while changeable it can't be done as flexibly as the spellcaster classes.
I would also love new the new damage types for warrior runes or giving the option to tune the runes, perhaps a rune can be tuned just once a month so while changeable it can't be done as flexibly as the spellcaster classes.
I like both of these ideas. I always thought Nekotai should do some type of poison damage somehow
Unknown2011-07-27 01:56:04
Should probably put the one that winds people in both acrobatics and athletics. Give the warriors some love.