Hey everyone, I've been playing for a couple of months now and am finally getting into some more advanced stuff. I was wondering if some people could give some information on some classes/archetypes and such. Different strategies different classes use, different utility skills, what makes the class fun, etc.

I was interested in learning why every warrior it seems is blademaster vs. the other three? I heard bonecrushers suck, didn't hear much about the other two. I thought axelord sounded cool and am wondering why people aren't them as much.
Other classes I'm kinda interested about are druids and monks. Just interested in their playstyle and utility.

So far I'm loving shadowdancer. Very easy to kill people I find. Only thing is I could see it getting boring in the future because I rely on the same strategies over and over because they work, and it doesn't take more than that.

Any and all help and input and comments are appreciated. Thanks!


Note: Basically this is a topic that I hope gets full of super long responses so I have something to do during the slow times at work.

Well, up until the recent change (which may or may not have made a difference), one reason there are lots of Blademasters is because PinLeg is/was KING. That and being able to deliver two poisons at once instead of just one.

And you'll find that no matter what class you are, you will find a single strategy that "works" and stick with it. The way combat has evolved, unless you are in a group setting with lots of people giving you options, each class has just about one way to kill people.

Blademaster is definitely very useful in group and single combat, mostly with PinLeg though there was a change to that recently that makes it less effective in groups (and unexpected side effects elsewhere). Other than that (and Impale) they rely on arm affs and heavily rely on head affs to seal the deal.
Bonecrusher has a lot of hindering and plenty of moves to knock someone off-balance and prone them, but other than that it doesn't have the offence of other classes.
Pureblade is well-rounded in comparison to the other classes, though there are general complaints about warriors across the board that you may have heard of. The two-handed specs can utilize "burst wounding" better than the one-handed specs.
Axelord lacks good hindering and other afflictions until they get up to heavy/critical wounds, which makes them nice support in a group of warriors but not as effective 1v1.

Druids are like mages, but branch off Nature in the same way that Wicca do but take Druidry (both Hartstone and Blacktalon do). I can't say I'm a big expert on druids but from what I've heard HS are more defensive and BT are more offensive. Both can pull you into the trees and "sap" you, which is like aeon or choke but is removed by cleansing, rubbing golden soap, ect. They can also put saplings in their demesne which make it so that the meld cannot be removed til the saplings are cut down.
Monks are a lot like warriors in the fact that they're hindered by rebounding, parrying, shields, armor, and natural missrate. Monks build wounds to do more damage instead of afflict, however. The resource they spend on aflictions is momentum; one momentum is gained per successful form or combo under normal circumstances, though certain moves can cause more momentum to be gained and modifiers can be used to temporarily raise momentum.

Nerf Choke IMO the Guardian and Wicca classes are more "streamlined" in the fact that there are certain strategies that will most always work. (Fling tarot A fling Tarot B, fling tarot A, fling Tarot C), and once you learn that it's a battle of finding a better method or finding a method of stopping it from being interrupted.

Blademaster prior to the latest 'no pinning the same limb' change was King (or Queen) because of the ease by which a warrior could initiate and maintain a constant stream of pinlegs and impales on a target. Mind, I'm no warrior, but I believe the general premise was to work on a leg long enough to start the pin chain with enough wounds. Rend to incur bleeding and poisons while people writhe and they'll be too busy off balance from writhing or stuck on a pin to be able to fight back. More time needs to pass to see the viability of the method still, but I think it should be possible still albeit they'll maybe have to work on two separate areas instead of just the one.

Pureblade, I'd say would be ranked second of the four because of its ease of throwing out regeneration-level afflictions reliably. Cleave is wondrous in terms of bashing, and Decapitate is always nice to have since groups always appreciate a good timed instakill.

Axelord has recently seen a rise of use because of its mix between Execute and knockdown (popular among Ecto-users), so I'd rank that third in popularity between the four. Bonecrusher is apparently the weakest because, though it has knockdown (which used to stun and now steals balance and prones), people I suppose don't look to build wounds much elsewhere for a kill? Not particularly sure myself, but Wind (also a balance stealer) was also popular back then. Best ask an actual warrior for particular information for any of these outside of my generalizations and guesstimations.



Druid, as a melding class, is pretty much one of the keys to success as a group. Though people have functioned without melders, the presence of one really boosts the side which has one. Unlike mages, druids are pretty much useless outside of a forest, moreso out of their meld. Though you can balance this to an extent by being a Dreamweaver, the other tertiaries are preferred because of their general utility or their specialized focus in combat. If you're looking at the Blacktalon, Runes is tops for draining mana down for a Swoop. Ecology is absolutely fantastic defensively and in terms of utility because of the DMP charms give you and the accessibility of quick travel through Pathfinding in Hunting.

Because of the centrality of sticking sap to a druid's offense, 1v1, outside of their meld, there's no hope of sticking that unless you're fighting someone without cures. Group combat, still doable, but needs a forest or trees to access the skill, so location is key to a druid. Elevation as well.

Monks are decidedly...off, in my opinion. They definitely have utility, both in terms of bashing speed, 1v1 combat, and general survivability. With access to Acrobatics, Kata Deflect, and Tattoos TattooMaster, a combative monk is a pain to kill between passive (lol)dodging and tankier resists than splendour robes. Depending on the particular skills you're looking at, the skill names might be different, but you'll still end up doing fine if given the opportunity to build up.



As others have said before me, each class will indeed end up doing a lot of the same strategies because they work. this is why you change things up and skillflex out - if you're a Hexen Shadowdancer, try going Astrology or Healing. If you're a Runist druid, try going Dreamweaving or Ecology. Each change in tertiary will result in not only a different path to managing a kill, but to a wholly different skillset for you to play with. When you've exhausted tertiary hopping, that's when I'd say you should try out a different class, but that's completely up to you, I believe.

The Pinleg change was a bug fix, and I disagree with the complaints about not being able to pin the same leg twice. Tell me any other heavy wounds affliction that allows you to double it up...

Rivius says he's envoying another Pinleg change anyway, and trying to buff some other stuff.

This I know, and we've already discussed our opinions. I feel sorry for the Blademasters, having to rely on this crutch for so long that they can't stand on their own without it. (Not meant to be sarcastic or snarky, either. I genuinely feel it's more balanced this way and the tactics are all that need to change.)

Non-pinleg-having-knight-bitterness-solidarity!

Awesome. Thanks for the help so far. Anyone mind going a but more in depth on monks and their skills as well as researchers and illuminati? Thanks again?

To add to the Bonecrusher chat, while yes it's good for hindering anyone who doesn't have acrobatics, I've always thought that its problem is that it doesn't have the bleeding capability of the other weapon specs. Even the basic LacerateArm/ArmArtery affliction can build up significant bleeding if not cured immediately, and the better afflictions also give greater bleeding, which can force your target to sip mana from clot spam, or even health if the bleeding is allowed to get significant, and so lose the apply balance for curing deepwounds. As it stands, you rarely have to sip health/mana vs. a BC and so near always have apply balance for deepwounds.

My suggestion to bring it on par to other specs would be to have an 'internal bleeding' or 'bruising' dependent on wounding buff, that would be functionally identical to normal bleeding, since no-one wants to add new affs. Though balancing for BCs with Necro/Paradigmatics might be tricky...

I'll bite and talk a little about monks.

Monks use the same affliction set as warriors. They are the only two classes with access to the physical "wounds" based afflictions. Stuff like broken nose, sliced tendon, slit throat, crushed ribs etc etc. From their names alone you know they sound very physical.

This is important because many of those afflictions have unique effects that are required for certain set ups which magic based classes thus have very little access to. Notably, some of the more powerful afflictions in this "physical" type are regeneration cures. Regeneration salves only cure the affliction 4 seconds after it is applied, meaning that there is a significant delay that allows the effect of these afflictions to be felt.

Unlike warriors, though, monks do not require their opponent's body parts to have certain wound levels before they can cause these afflictions. Instead, monks have specific attacks that always give an affliction as long as it hits, regardless of the target's status. Each of these attacks are given a "weight" rating instead. This can be thought of as how difficult the attack is to execute. At the same time, monks have "momentum levels", which restrict what amount of weight they can use at a time. Momentum runs from 0 through 6, for a total of 7 levels. 0 is the starting state, everytime a monk succesfully attacks, he gains 1 momentum. He loses 1 momentum for 8 seconds of not succesfully landing an attack. Upon gaining momentum, that timer is reset. The maximum momentum a monk can attain is level 5. Level 6 can only be reached by using power specifically.

At levels 1 and 2, the maximum weight a monk can use is heavily limited, where only some of the more basic, and less debilitating attacks can be used. However, at level 5, a monk's repertoire is almost fully opened up. Depending on the guild, they can use most of their strongest attacks. Since these attacks are guaranteed to give the affliction, a monk at level 5 momentum is very dangerous. In addition to high weight, some of the more powerful attacks also automatically lower a monk's momentum level upon landing.

As a result of these mechanics, optimizing monk combat means optimizing speed. The faster you hit, the faster you get to max momentum, and the more deadly afflictions you can give, while at the same time, the faster you recover your momentum after giving those afflictions. It's no exaggeration to say that a monk's affliction output probably outstrips a warrior's by far.

Each of the four monk guilds have different afflictions available, and thus they have different kill methods and strategies/combinations which they can set up.

Thanks Lerad! That was extremely helpful and I now have a better understanding of monks overall. As far as more advanced...what are the strategies and different kill methods of the different monk classes? It seems like the nekotai use alot of poisons and focus on getting their jill through that crotamine skill. How about the other monks?

To add to the above....wha are katas and how do they work?

Not really trying to buff it, I'm trying to change it back to being how it was before this unsolicited nerf (but still nerfed in group combat), since, you know, 1v1 is pretty damn hard now without it. I think other knights honestly have far easier means of hindering and building wounds but I guess we probably shouldn't get into a debate about this. I'll just say, pinleg was only really powerful in groups and I agree with the changes there.

I also think if you got pinleg trained that badly 1v1, your curing, parry and stance needed serious work.


and Iasmos, I also don't buy that you're not being snarky. You're free to give us some good alternatives to proning people or getting past parry and stance that doesn't require critical leg wounds within our skillset with this new change. Go ahead. Also, Lusternia has a bunch of unique skills, who cares if you can't double up other heavy wound affs?

Look at -> THIS <- and scroll down to FORMS. That should get you started.

Complaints about not being able to pin the same leg twice....

Yes, well, you know.

Well, we got tired about complaining that we had to work hard for our afflictions while another class gets them handed to them.
/troll

They should give us far more tank obviously. Triple armor bonus from masterplate and add athletics celladjustment/bloodboil. Ya know, since the monks took our afflictions. An eye for an eye!

Duplicate.