Talan2011-09-27 21:56:00
The damage is split between charisma and int. Both factor in.
Unknown2011-09-27 22:22:03
QUOTE (Malarious @ Sep 27 2011, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Cantors are better played as guardians than bards. Go tarot and you will do just fine if you try to act Celestine. It is kind of funny, they have some of the best songs but because they are harder to use solo people discount them.
I'd be curious for you to elaborate on this a little. Frankly, I've never much cared whether I win or lose or "get the kill" (though it is fun) either way, which was part of why I thought to experiment by stepping outside of my knight comfort zone and trying Cantor.
I mean, I'm not flailing around saying all the Cantor songs are hopelessly bad, but, I look at the nice support and crazy synergy of shadowbeat, or the solid mix of support and offense that necroscream doles out, or the general goodness of wildarrane, and I have to wonder where you are coming from with the "some of the best songs" statement.
Feel free to respond (or not) in a message if you don't want to here for whatever reason.
Unknown2011-09-27 22:30:11
QUOTE (Talan @ Sep 27 2011, 04:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The key word here is considered, because there have not really been any standout combatants playing the class. The blocking shield thing, as well as the ability to force hearing the song effects for a limited time are fairly powerful components, but the game is still waiting for someone to wreak merry havoc with this spec and show us all how spiffy it is in action.
Eversea only works in natural water environments. No aqua demesne. It's so specialized its almost useless save in specific scenarios on water and the odd inner sea fight. Needs changing if its going to be anything close to what it is being made out to be.
It suffers from the aquaman complex. "Oh yeah, well, why don't you just step in to the water and say that. Yeah. Hey. Hey, come back! Hey! ...dammit."
Talan2011-09-27 22:32:16
QUOTE (Rainydays @ Sep 27 2011, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Eversea only works in natural water environments. No aqua demesne. It's so specialized its almost useless save in specific scenarios on water and the odd inner sea fight. Needs changing if its going to be anything close to what it is being made out to be.
I was not aware of that restriction. It sounds like an envoy change I'd support.
Enyalida2011-09-27 22:59:09
Magical (Charisma) indicates that it's split between int and cha, so yes, they will still be effected by low ints. Damage skills aren't the best way for bards to damage though, so that's not really a big issue.
EDIT: Sure it just doesn't require deluge to be active? If not, that's a bug...
EDIT: Sure it just doesn't require deluge to be active? If not, that's a bug...
Malarious2011-09-27 23:06:14
Everyone gauges songs by comparing to other bards, but what about when the songs were not made to act like bards?
Their songs increase potion balance, reduce enemies potion balance, add a chance of fail to eating and sipping, and lastly a song that causes kneel (prone+stun). Let us look at just those songs for now and consider them as bards. A standard bard offense will base on trying to stack aurics, which this does not greatly help with except for times where they try to eat earwort and fail by a fraction of a second before you blanknote. Where things that cause failed cures shine is delays, of which cantors are known for their aeon. For 3p they can aeon + blackout + stun, now the bard gets another attack before you recover from this so they can use whatever skill they want here. When you try to cure anything you will have to suffer the chance for any cures to fail. This is not as easy to make use of as bleeding or burst damage, but these effects are by no means weak. In a group using aeon this would be devastating, could you imagine a cantor and a researcher together? Ouch.
Like I said, they are horrible bards, they should be treated more like guardians to be played more properly.
Their songs increase potion balance, reduce enemies potion balance, add a chance of fail to eating and sipping, and lastly a song that causes kneel (prone+stun). Let us look at just those songs for now and consider them as bards. A standard bard offense will base on trying to stack aurics, which this does not greatly help with except for times where they try to eat earwort and fail by a fraction of a second before you blanknote. Where things that cause failed cures shine is delays, of which cantors are known for their aeon. For 3p they can aeon + blackout + stun, now the bard gets another attack before you recover from this so they can use whatever skill they want here. When you try to cure anything you will have to suffer the chance for any cures to fail. This is not as easy to make use of as bleeding or burst damage, but these effects are by no means weak. In a group using aeon this would be devastating, could you imagine a cantor and a researcher together? Ouch.
Like I said, they are horrible bards, they should be treated more like guardians to be played more properly.
Sylphas2011-09-28 00:46:22
QUOTE (Talan @ Sep 27 2011, 05:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The damage is split between charisma and int. Both factor in.
I didn't notice a difference in the number of hits required to kill things as a brewdwarf versus an unspecced faeling. It was at most one hit, depending on mob.
Unknown2011-09-28 01:47:30
I feel like it should be noted that although you have an EQ malus, you have quite a lot of resistances and a fairly high CON, which would make you considerably less easy to kill.
Unknown2011-09-28 02:52:32
Regarding Brewmiester dwarf bonuses:
Base brewmiester dwarf charisma: 15
Lets compare to the other "specialized" races for bards:
Seasinger Merian: 15
Shadowsinger Faeling: 17
Wild Elfen: 16
Irontongue Viscanti: 12 (!) (that said, one of their low stanza songs gives +3 to Viscanti, but still.)
Point being, just because you're not an OP faeling doesn't mean you're hugely disadvantaged/broken.
Outside of the specialized races that can get to 15 charisma or higher-
Tae'dae: 15 charisma with some GREAT resists, albiet bad intelligence. However, the race is shot to nil by two massive bal/eq penalties, with two hefty elemental maluses to put icing on the cake.
Unspec'd faeling: 16 charisma, a balance bonus that would help with tarot if you go that way. No maluses, but 9 con. However, 18 dexterity, 15 intelligence, and that con, unlike balance and elemental maluses, can be largely negated at higher levels/buffs/arties. Oh, and you can fly. Pretty good, but you will be squishy for a long while before you can negate that con. (that said, merians run around with 10 con and two big elemental maluses, without that sip bonus to offset anything. /gripe)
Unspec'd elfen: 15 charisma, 15 int, 14 dexterity, but 11 con. small herb bonus. Basically, faeling lite.
Trill: 15 charisma, 14 dex, 14 int, 11 con. Some nice resists, flight, and a light malus. Not a terrible choice either.
Also of note are furrikin, who have 14 base charisma, but have some pretty resists and a balance/eq bonus, and aslaran, 13 base charisma, predominantly for the balance/eq bonuses again.
Point being, nothing but faeling breaks 15 con unspec'd. Even considering specs, only wild elfen and shadowsinger faeling (16/17 respectively) break it.
Thus, there's nothing wrong with brewmiester dwarves.
Base brewmiester dwarf charisma: 15
Lets compare to the other "specialized" races for bards:
Seasinger Merian: 15
Shadowsinger Faeling: 17
Wild Elfen: 16
Irontongue Viscanti: 12 (!) (that said, one of their low stanza songs gives +3 to Viscanti, but still.)
Point being, just because you're not an OP faeling doesn't mean you're hugely disadvantaged/broken.
Outside of the specialized races that can get to 15 charisma or higher-
Tae'dae: 15 charisma with some GREAT resists, albiet bad intelligence. However, the race is shot to nil by two massive bal/eq penalties, with two hefty elemental maluses to put icing on the cake.
Unspec'd faeling: 16 charisma, a balance bonus that would help with tarot if you go that way. No maluses, but 9 con. However, 18 dexterity, 15 intelligence, and that con, unlike balance and elemental maluses, can be largely negated at higher levels/buffs/arties. Oh, and you can fly. Pretty good, but you will be squishy for a long while before you can negate that con. (that said, merians run around with 10 con and two big elemental maluses, without that sip bonus to offset anything. /gripe)
Unspec'd elfen: 15 charisma, 15 int, 14 dexterity, but 11 con. small herb bonus. Basically, faeling lite.
Trill: 15 charisma, 14 dex, 14 int, 11 con. Some nice resists, flight, and a light malus. Not a terrible choice either.
Also of note are furrikin, who have 14 base charisma, but have some pretty resists and a balance/eq bonus, and aslaran, 13 base charisma, predominantly for the balance/eq bonuses again.
Point being, nothing but faeling breaks 15 con unspec'd. Even considering specs, only wild elfen and shadowsinger faeling (16/17 respectively) break it.
Thus, there's nothing wrong with brewmiester dwarves.
Rakor2011-09-28 03:48:18
QUOTE (Falcon @ Sep 27 2011, 05:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Egh, it's very easy to get +5 charisma in addition to being a 15 base charisma dwarf, what with throne +2, karma beauty blessing +2, bardicpresence +2, and lets say domoth of beauty, if you get it,
Yeah, brewmeister dwarf can't get the best cha but I can hit 20 easily (as demi). Don't count on getting beauty domoth, no one cares about dwarves. The new attacks are useless end-game and pvp, but might be useful somewhere in mid-game. SS and Caco are definitely the best with pve
QUOTE (Rainydays @ Sep 27 2011, 10:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thus, there's nothing wrong with brewmiester dwarves.
Who said there was?
Ibost2011-09-28 10:58:14
All I read was nobody cares about dwarves.
Challenge accepted.
Challenge accepted.
