This will probably make some people laugh! I'll put my name in (Nymerya, that is) , because I think something like this needs someone who isn't a combatant all the time, because that's generally where resentment and hatreds start coming into play, and where you're going to be more likely to find bias.

I'm practically always online, and I talk to almost everyone, and I'm not disillusioned with the game to the point I'd give up if it was hard!

What is the concern with god realms, beyond the feasibility of defending them? And I believe that problem stems from how the god chooses to design it. So not exactly sure why that should be a problem Estarra/the rest of the admin should have to deal with.
Willing to make another thread if need be.

I'm nowhere near active enough to apply for the job, but have always been interested in the balancing and envoys processes.

If whoever gets chosen would like some perspective from someone with plenty of Celest/Guardian/Monk experience, send me a message!

Because it comes down to player review of it I guess?

The problem varies...
Fains: Hard as Nil to defend, enemies can easily set it up to be a burden to try to protect.
Eventru: The realm has been known to defend itself, part of this is the tracking code where you get 11 merian in one room.
Elostian: You enter into an unbreakable room, you rarely make it out of this as a group.
Nocht: Special exits everywhere, super easy to break melds, not easy to set up for properly against defenders.

Etc etc etc, most are either hard to raid or hard to defend, they do not seem to balance well.


EDIT: You know I value your opinions Placeus You are still my go to Tahtetso

The feasibility of defending them is the core problem, with poor design choice being the main cause.

The problem stemming from this is the willingness to defend the godrealm. Currently, there is no mechanical reason to want to defend a godrealm, and no ability to feasibly do so once an enemy is entrenched. That said, I feel that something is lost when players give up godrealms as lost causes. This isn't precisely an admin problem, yet they have the power to do something about it, and thus feel that they should, at the very least, ask the gods to make their realms more readily defendable, even if they choose to do nothing more extensive.

Godrealm design is not, and likely never will be, up to the debate of players at large. My godrealm is of my own design, much as any other admin's is up to their own design. Within certain parameters, we're given free reign in its morphology.

Don't like it?

Tough cookies.

Alright. Heck with it. I'd like to put my name in to apply as well. Now I know, a lot of people are going to say "But he hasn't been around for 5 years"

I'm going to toss in there that this is exactly what I offer. I don't have all the build up and all of the attachment that a lot of other people have.

I'm not *quite* outside the game obviously, but I'm newer than a lot of people and fairly active.

So toss my name in the hat.

I'm sure you realize that your stance only exacerbates the problem, especially since you have one of the most easily defendable realms. If RP dictates that players defend their godrealms, and gods expect the players to do so (and get quite prissy when the don't), then there is definitely a disconnect here that needs to be fixed.
In the case that you are unwilling to do anything about the problems godrealms face, then might I suggest simply making them unassailable.

Easy there cowboy. It's up to the gods and their order as to whether they want to declare Orderwar, and if they don't, then their god realm IS essentially an RP area. Give them a bit of credit.

Not entirely sure I have one of the 'most easily defendable' - since it's not uncommon I see 1-2 people have cleared it out entirely. Not that it's relevant - as I said, the design is up to each god, and I doubt you'd see a willingness of said gods to surrender their realms design to the 'perfect defensive design'.

Unfortunately, the importance of Orders in org level combat means that Orderwar is essentially forced. I understand that gods have a desire to design their own realm, and I respect their right to creativity. That said, IF defending godrealms in going to be expected player behavior, SOMETHING has to be done, either by the god themselves or the admins.

There actually is. In Veneration, with Pilgrimage being a big one. I will admit a big part of it has to do with realm size, but it is possible. I can provide logs(after I get my laptop back and fixed) of Mag kicking our asses in Fains realm, on at least 1-2 occasions.
And I'll echo Eventru in mentioning the ability for 1 or 2 people being able to clear out a large portion of the realm priestesses.

1-2 people clearing a large realm tends to mean either waiting a room away for tracking mobs to walk in or the realm does not tend to clump or hasfew mobs anyway. Also pilgrimage works in some realms and not in others, if your altar is near enough to the entrance that its also melded with the entrance and/or its unbreakable then you are still in trouble. It all varies heavily, this would not be easy to fix and I agree though that gods are entitled to design it themselves.

As to OrderWars, when is the last time any Order called one?

Edited to adjust for the facts of the realms. Its easy to raid Elostians solo, But you do not head on 10 tracking merian solo, you wait for them to trickle.

Sorry if you feel targetted Eventru, I have not raided many realms but yours is the best example. Though this problem can also be seen with daughters who create large clots on ethereal Glomdoring. I was told this is related to the code for wandering.

Your arguments are non-sequitur. An orderwar hasn't occurred since Fain and I had one several years ago - and I don't see what that has to do with shrines or orders, or even defending them. Order Wars cannot be 'forced' - both parties must agree to them.

If you don't want to adhere to the expectations of the god, don't join their order.

Pretty simple, that!

Can we just save this thread some posts and just say no one has to defend anything.

I still feel like addressing godrealms is ultimately futile considering that each one is essentially the god's baby, and the gods themselves already don't get much to play around with.

I have to agree with you there. There are plenty of things that need attention outside of combat which aren't addressed already by the envoy system.

The problem with godrealms isn't really how hard or easy they are to raid, it's the fact that players feel the obligation to do so. A change to orders (which I do kind of want) would be less focused on god realm design (yes, let the gods have their realms) and more on that obligatory relationship that required defending the realm. Some mechanic that would probably end up making realms essentially un-raidable but that gives enemy orders some way to attack the god seems like the best solution, imo.

EDIT: I also don't think he meant the actual (unused?) orderwar mechanic.
EDIT2: Should we make a separate (jumping the gun) thread about topics for said report?

Speaking of gods, yes I totally agree that shrines have way too much impact in combat.

Let's not get side tracked. This thread is for those to apply for this project, not to discuss specific issues (which you are free to do in another thread). As far as godrealms go, they are the domain of the gods, and not even I interfere in that (i.e., talk to the gods--maybe there's a reason they don't want their realms easily defensible, maybe they want to test you, or prefer aesthetics over defense, or any number of reasons).

Someone make said thread. With haste. This is a problem the envoy needs to address, recently there has been a lack of snappy thread creation.